[The poster is male.]
o yeah and i seem to recall a verse that explains why women go through pain in childbirth......o yeah, it's a consequence of SINNING. so it's something that they are just gonna have to deal with, because it's the consequence of their own actions. or arent you a strong enough woman to accept the reprocusions of what you've done?
46 comments
The central problem with your stupid contention is that, according to the Babble, pain in child birth is the result of SOMEONE ELSE'S SIN from thousands of years ago.
Oh, yeah, you're a stupid, misogynist assbite.
I wonder if there are assbites in heaven?
Riiiiiiight, only women sin.
Sheesh, how can a religious fundie manage to be so stupid, unbiblical, and callously misogynistic in so few words?
~David D.G.
There will be roses in heaven. Beautiful roses with perfect blooms and long, vicious thorns and you will spend all eternity wrapped in their embrace. I can see it now.
Nah. It wouldn't be heaven if I knew you were suffering like that. But seriously, meanness gets you jack shit at the empathy store.
Atheist Heaven: More fun, less crowding. Cooler people.
Right...allow me to...something...
[begin VOICE OF GOD immitation]
For the sin of poor spelling...
For the sin of idiocy...
For the sin of bigotry...
For the sin of not forgiving after thousands of years...
I sentence you to PAIN. You and your descendants will now and forever more experience severe pain upon orgasm.
[end VOICE OF GOD rant]
Have fun with that, asshole.
Well, *this* woman plans to use the wonders of modern medicine to alleviate the pain of childbirth.
You know, this was probably the argument used a long time ago to deny women anesthetic when they gave birth?
No, this was the argument they used hundreds of years ago to justify BURNING WOMEN AT THE STAKE for using anesthetics.
http://www.ffrf.org/fttoday/1999/April99/whatley.html
"It is recorded in the history of Scotland that in the year of 1591 a lady of rank by the name of Eufame Macalyane was burned alive on the castle hill of Edinburgh. She was burned alive because while giving birth to her twin sons she asked the midwife, whose name was Agnes Sampson, to give her something for pain. Now, Agnes Sampson, out of Christian love for this suffering woman, must have reported the incident to the church authorities."
I wonder if he'd feel the same way if it were him:
I just think its stupid to justify abortion on the fact that pregnancy or giving birth is unpleasant so i dont wanna go through it.....that's a copout and shows weakness.
UNPLEASANT! You hear that, girls? It's not painful, dangerous, or debilitating! It's just unpleasant! He has to deal with the unpleasantness of hearing his pregnant wife whine about her swollen feet, so they're even. And what's a little gestational diabetes between friends?
I hate people so much.
By this guys logic, he should reject every technology that makes procuring food easier than it was for a bronze age farmer - as I'm sure he calls, God also pronounced a punishment on Adam.
I suppose Fundyism won't have you unless you're a hypocrite.
Define sin.
Then riddle me this, batman.
If the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil enabled Adam and Eve to see the sin of their nakedness, wouldn't it be logical to assume that Eve did not know it was evil to eat the fruit, since before she ate it she had no knowledge of good and evil? Even the disobedience to the commandment of God was not a sin, since sin is impossible without the knowledge of good and evil. To quote Arsenio, hhmmmmmmm...... (finger to chin)
If you're unconscious during childbirth so you don't feel the pain, does that mean you didn't sin? If you use a spinal shot to relieve the pain, does that mean you're beating out the consequences of your sinning, basically showing you're stronger than god cause you can stop the pain? What about women who never have a child? They don't ever go through the pain of childbirth, is that a free pass to sin? Or does it mean they didn't sin ever, because if they did they'd suffer the consequences? ;)
Time for one of my favourite Bertrand Russell quotes:
One occasion for theological intervention to prevent the mitigation of human suffering was the discovery of anesthetics. Simpson, in 1847, recommended their use in childbirth, and was immediately reminded by the clergy that God said to Eve: 'In sorrow shalt thou bring forth children' (Gen. id. 16). And how could she sorrow if she was under the influence of chloroform? Simpson succeeded in proving that there was no harm in giving anesthetics to men, because God put Adam into a deep sleep when He extracted his rib. But male ecclesiastics remained unconvinced as regards the sufferings of women, at any rate in childbirth. (R.S.p105)
I googled to get it and got it from here. This page is a great read!
http://users.drew.edu/~jlenz/br-best-religion.html
The whole concept of original sin is for morons.
If god is perfect, all knowing and all powerful, then he would've known Eve would be tempted by the snake to eat the fruit of the tree of life, and then feed it to Adam. A perfect, all knowing, all powerful god would've killed the snake and put the tree elsewhere, out of reach. End of story.
It's just a stupid bullshit myth to con us into millennia of guilt.
Papabear #28615
<< David D.G. -- He's stupid and callously misogynistic alright, but not unbiblical. Genesis does say that the great pains of child birth are the result of God's curse on women for Eve's sin. >>
----------------
Papabear: Exactly. For EVE's sin. This guy connects "sinning" with "the consequence of their own actions" and "the reprocussions [sic] of what you've done," implying that it is the woman's OWN sin that brings on pain in childbirth. That's why I said he was being "unbiblical."
~David D.G.
Berny #28662
<< The whole concept of original sin is for morons.
If god is perfect, all knowing and all powerful, then he would've known Eve would be tempted by the snake to eat the fruit of the tree of life, and then feed it to Adam. A perfect, all knowing, all powerful god would've killed the snake and put the tree elsewhere, out of reach. End of story.
It's just a stupid bullshit myth to con us into millennia of guilt. >>
----------------------
Berny: ON THE NOSE!
~David D.G.
Of course, this has nothing to do with the fact that the Bible was partially written to explain things we didn't understand... such as "Why are women in so much pain during childbirth?"
As for me, epidural quickly and often. Screw those idiots who tell me that my body knows what it's doing. I know what my cramps feel like and if they're only about 5% of the pain of childbirth, I am convinced that being in labor will kill me.
Always thought it was interesting that that pain in childbirth was a 'punishment for sin', while Eve was also instructed to 'go forth and multiply' (doing god's will). Oh, and the only way she could breed was through sex . . . also a 'sin'. Oh, except for that one noteworthy exception. All hail Jebus!
So, homosexulals are evil because they can't repoduce.. and hetrosexual sex is a sin because its mucky and all that... and God wants child birth to be as painful as possible so women are reminded what sinfull little sluts they really are... but we are supposed to go forth and multiply?
I mean, come on, what are we supposed to fucking do? lay eggs? Oh no, wait, that would involve evolution wouldn't it? And that NEVER happened.
Its nice to know women can be strong when it comes to taking the blame for men being dicks, but not when it comes to leading a religious meeting or in debate.
I can see your point, but study your theology sir. Under Jewish law it would be a sin to recieve pain medicine, because the Jewish people are a Torah-bound, Law-bound people. However, Christ set us free, and Paul's theology of love tells us that sins are those actions that go against love (of God, of others, of ourselves). Pain relief during childbirth is not a sin against love, so it is not a sin in the Christian sense of the word.
P.S. I'm Catholic . . . trust me, we have a LOT of sins in our Catechism.
Jenny, in the fine tradition of the rest of the bible, Paul made up whatever shit he felt like.
I vote however that we brand this fucker with the Mark of Cain, it's the consequence of sinning!
And The Last Conformist, you're absolutely right. He should be out there in the field right now, sowing crops and tending the livestock, since that's the curse God laid upon man.
Should mares or does be concious of their sinning?, yes, they also feel pain when childbearing. Moreover, should all men work the land and give up their tie-n-collar jobs?, you know, it's their curse too. And by the way, it's Eve who did that, not us.
"reprocusions(sic)"
Die in a fire.
-_-
Sin is a fictional concept. The pain of childbirth has a fully natural explination.
Also IWITARIH, you're a moron.
What the...? wrote: As for me, epidural quickly and often. Screw those idiots who tell me that my body knows what it's doing. I know what my cramps feel like and if they're only about 5% of the pain of childbirth, I am convinced that being in labor will kill me.
No kidding. If my five-percent-of-childbirth cramps are keeping me in bed, writhing in agony that even painkillers are having a hard time alleviating, like fucking hell you're telling me that women shouldn't be allowed anaesthetics while giving birth.
Once again: if men could give birth, this would never be an issue.
Yes, punishing half of the human race for one woman's crime (and it wasn't even a crime, she didn't know what she was doing) sounds SO logical.
Please explain to my mother what she had done to merit two scars on her belly, one from me and another from my brother. You'll be lucky to escape with your limbs intact.
First God did not want to make a woman. He wanted Adam to pick a beast as helpmeet. Then God a naked Adam with no shame and sundry beasts could have froliced for eternity in the garden.
But Adam wanted a woman , so God had to make Eve, and thats when Adam went off the rails *whipped* by eating the fruit.
God cursed Eve and all women with difficult and deadly childbirth. Such a nice God.
moral: dont mess up Gods plans for a happy garden party of naked men.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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