If you are an atheist consider the following paradox.
If you do not believe that God exists, then you dismiss the biblical stories (angels appearing from heaven etc) from 2000 years ago as 'fairy tales'.
OK, so lets take that as an established fact.
Now go back another 1500 years in history and look at the pyramids in Egypt. Built in the Bronze Age they contain 50 tonne granite roof slabs and 5 tonne blocks of limestone all over the constructions. Do you believe that they were built by bronze age man ? (Wikipedia bronze age man if you are unsure of his capabilities).
OK, so now we have 2 possible combinations.
1) You think the stories about what happened 2000 years ago are fantasy but believe those about what happened 3500 years ago
Combination 1 means that you are applying your thought patterns selectively and therefore your Atheism has no intelectually sound basis and can safely be ignored.
Combination 2 means that the pyramids were not built by mankind, eluding strongly to the existance of God (as defined as an unknown quantity from outside the planet).
Can anyone solve the paradox ?
107 comments
If you are a non-Muslim, consider the following paradox.
If you do not believe that God exists and that Islam is His religion, then you dismiss the Qur'anic stories (angels appearing from heaven etc) from 1400 years ago as 'fairy tales'.
OK, so lets take that as an established fact.
Now go back another 600 years in history and look at the New Testament. Those stories are as farfetched as any in the Qur'an. Do you believe that zombie saints invaded Jerusalem and that no one except one Gospel author thought to write it down?
OK, so now we have 2 possible combinations.
1) You think the stories about what happened 1400 years ago are fantasy but believe those about what happened 2000 years ago
Combination 1 means that you are applying your thought patterns selectively and therefore your rejection of Islam has no intelectually sound basis and can safely be ignored.
Combination 2 means that all holy books are nonsense, alluding strongly to the nonexistence of any sort of God.
Sure! I can SEE and TOUCH the pyramids. Show me physical evidence left by your fairy tales, and I'll accept the conclusion you have presented me.
It's not belief when there's evidence...
Your definition of God could very well include aliens, which would fit the definition of life from another planet. You haven't made a argument for God, just a very stupid argument for why Stargate was real.
But that's not not even where your argument fails. Your logic fails because there is no physical evidence for any of the more outlandish tales in the Bible, were as the existence of the pyramids is a known fact. Furthermore current historic theories as to what built the pyramids come from our understanding of Egyptian technology and not their mythology. What this means is that it is possible to disbelieve in stories 2,000 years old, disbelieve in stories 3,500 years old, and still believe the pyramids were built by people, and not create a logical paradox.
Massive Fail.
The pyramids exist. They are that old. A healthy human slave can sustain 0.1 horsepower. Multiply by several thousand.
Your spooks are tales told by idiots and liars.
If you are a theist, consider the following paradox:
How is it that otherwise intelligent people can't smell the bullshit?
"1) You think the stories about what happened 2000 years ago are fantasy but believe those about what happened 3500 years ago
You left out 3) the pyramids actually exist, unlike your fairy tale.
Combination 3 means you ignore reality, making you a functional retard.
1) Can you solve this paradox?
First of all, you need to learn the difference between a reliable and an unreliable source. The bible is not a reliable source - Records kept by Egyptians have much more validity. Second of all, we have supporting evidence to show the pyramids were created by Humans...Graffiti inside a portion where only the workers would have had access to, worker camps, and so on. Third of all, there's a huge difference between finding writings about Egyptians building pyramids and about Angels appearing from heaven. One we can see, touch, feel, and even smell. The other exists entirely in a story.
If the Egyptians were advanced enough to build the pyramids, they would have been advanced enough to have noticed and recorded some of those miraculous things, had they really happened.
It's no paradox; we require at least two independent accounts of the same historical event, in the absence of physical evidence. You only have one questionable account and no physical evidence at all.
15 years ago, Harry Potter went to wizard school.
200 years ago, Napoleon ruled most of Europe.
If you admit that the second statement is true, then by Stephen's logic, you must admit to the first as well.
The problem with your logic (beyond the obvious fact they're not related in the least) being that we have the proof those structures were built while there is none for your silly sky daddy.
What is more, we have a fellow using nothing but primitive tools to build a replica of Stonehenge with no outside help.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lRRDzFROMx0
And thus your strawman goes up in a poof of flame and smoke.
StephenBrabin seem to argue that Atheists reject things solely on the basis of the age of the event.
So, if an Atheist reject something that supposedly happenend 2000 years ago, such as Jesus walking on water, he should also reject the idea that man built the pyramids since that happened even earlier.
Yes, the bible is a fairy tale.
The pyramids are not stories, there's tangible evidence that they were built, the stones were hacked out of mountains and dragged to place. There is also eyewitness acounts, lots of them from several different sources.
There is no tangible evidence of the stone tablets with the ten commandments, nor of Christ waking up from the dead. Not even the four evangelists are agreeing on what happened to Christ.
What do you mean with applying ones thought patterns selectively? Don't we do that all the time? I prefer not to think about things that make me sad, angry or disgusted, so I try not to. Isn't this also selectively?
Nice way of showing your intelligence, by misspelling "intellectually". And please, there is no a in the word existence. If you want to ditter so much about the existence of God, please learn to spell it correctly.
Uhh Uhh me! I wanto to solve it:
You are a complete idiot, and there is no paradox. There problem solved.
Piramids have a phisical precense.
If your best sources of information are the bible and wikipedia then you should keep your mouth shut.
What paradox?
If the Egyptians didn't build the pyramids God did? Hell of a leap. Also the pyramids exist therefor someone built them, they're decorated inside with Egyptian art and writting so we logically assume they built them.
Speaking of logic, learn how to use it
Additional: The Egyptians depicted their Gods and events of same and predate the Bible (as does the story of Horus the Krist) They also looked to the skies for signs
Conclusion? Some of the Bible is stories taken from ancient Egypt biotch
What's supposed to be so damn difficult about building the Pyramids? Single easiest large stone structure you can build. Which was why it was the first large stone structure that was built. Bottom line is, it's just a heap. Nice symmetrical heap, I grant you, but still ... a heap. And large stones are no problem given sufficient quantities of rope and muscle.
Well, since we've already managed to build something approximating the Great Pyramids using only period methods, then it makes sense to conclude that this way, or another, more simple way, was how they did it.
For fuck's sake! Do people still believe that the pyramids were made supernaturally?
You know, the people in Iceland don't rewally believe in trolls or elves. They just do it to fuck with the municipalities and stupid people who want to tear up their land. So there's really no excuse for any educated people to believe the pyramids were magicked into place.
So, using your logic, if you believe stories from 2000 years ago you must believe that Julius Caesar ascended into heaven in front of witnesses.
If you believe that all old stories are true, you must also believe the Upanishads and Enuma Elish.
Do you see what's wrong yet?
*AHEM*!
The Great Pyramid of the Giza Plateau is 4500 years old, not 3500.
EDIT: Dammit, D Laurier beat me to it.
Yeah, cuz the Bible couldn't at all be a mishmash of corrupted history and myths the Jews picked up while being captive in Babylon . . .
Also, as for the Pyramids, you can do a fuck of a lot with a few thousand slaves. I think he brought up ancient astronauts? I dunno.
"Can anyone solve the paradox ? "
Sure. You're comparing supernatural myths with engineering problems. Bronze age people may not have had cars and iPods, but they were still as smart and resourceful as us modern humans. And never underestimate what several thousand people can do when motivated and organised.
And, you know, I'm happy to say "I don't know" when it comes to the specifics of pyramid construction. But they're there, and there's no denying that it did in fact happen.
Now, for your little fairy tale, not only is there zero proof for any of it actually happening, there's actually positive logical evidence that it couldn't have happened the way it's portrayed in your handbook. And even if by some freak chance any of it were true, it'd be imperative for all of us to revolt against such a vile and hateful story.
Your life. Your choice. But excuse me, if I don't follow your insignificant little death cult.
The Egyptian religion was only ever monotheistic during one period of it's reign under the Pharaohs. That was when Ankhahten made the solar disk, the Ahten.
Egypt was ridiculously polytheistic, pagan and pantheistic everywhere else in history before being conquered by invaders.
So does the building of their pyramids prove the existence of your god - no. They didn't believe in him.
Except that we have *more* *evidence* of man building the pyramids -- I mean, the Egyptians practically *told* us how they did it in their records.
On the other hand, all we have by way of "evidence" for your "God" is the Bible, which claims to be the "word" of your "god", and is thus *biased*.
This long rambling gibberish fails miserably simply because we know the pyramids exist. We can see them, touch them. We have records to give us an idea who built them, although not exactly how necessarily.
We do not on the other hand have a 'God' that we can see or touch in the same sense, let alone any evidence for the Bible's veracity. The global flood is in fact impossible according to physics.
Not fundie, at least not in a religious sense. Read the OP and he says nothing would ever get him inside any house of worship.
No, he seems to be claiming the pyramids were built using some mix of numerology and alien technology.
Solve the paradox? It is so easy it barely requires stating, but here we go anyway:
The Bible contains references to events that defy the laws of physics and nature. This fact alone casts doubt on their veracity.
Pyramids on the other hand, while impressive, do not defy the laws of physics and can clearly be built by man.
Seriously, what's so hard about that?
Except for the annoying fact that the actual pyramids exist, and the fairy tales from the bible have little, if any, evidence to back them up.
Sorry, but there is no paradox here.
One thing involves believing in the supernatural. The other only requires you to believe in the man-power of sheer numbers.
Epic logical failure here.
Except we have evidence of how the pyramids were built. Even back then, engineers tended to write a lot.
Now lets see this evidence for angels.
Yes.
The problem is that you are being selective with your information.
The accounts about the life of Jesus vary and sometimes contradict one another. There is mention of there being 500 witnesses to his ascension; how come we haven't found any diaries or anything from any of these 500 witnesses?
By contrast, the pyramids do not have much better documentation or much better witnessing (historical records from antiquity vary wildly in quality and believability; more recent documents are often more trustworthy), but show very clear evidence of having been made by man. You can see where and how the tools were used.
We can safely say, beyond a reasonable doubt, that the pyramids were constructed by man. There is considerably more doubt regarding the gospels.
Except for you know, the egyptians actually left an instruction manual of how they did it. See they had a standardised measurement where they cut the blocks. They also had someone who is called an "ARCHITECT" who would MEASURE and PLAN how the construction goes. They then used ramps to haul the blocks and stack them on top of each other using people and wooden rollers. Eventually you get a pyramid. You don't need spectacular technology for it. Just brains. Something YOU ARE SORELY LACKING SINCE YOU CANNOT FATHOM HOW A BUNCH OF BRONZE AGE PEOPLE MADE A VERY SIMPLE THING. ITS JUST VERY BIG.
Problem there.
We have pyramids. We have evidence that they were built by ancient people in Egypt. There are numerous non-conflicting records about them.
There is no evidence for many of the things happening in the Bible; in fact, there are entire cities mentioned in the Bible that probably never existed. Not to mention the fact that it contradicts itself multiple times, and that no contemporary authors of the time mention any of the wondrous things the Bible claims occurred.
My dog, what a fucking moron. The only paradox I see is the question of how a person of such obviously limited brain power was able to figure out how to turn on his computer and use a keyboard.
I'd watch out. This guy seems like he's got his stuff together...
HAAA HAA HAA!! BWAAA HAAAA!
"I used big words like "paradox" and phrases like "applying your thought patterns selectively",
They were made with WHIPS Stephen, great big whips. Also several thousand slaves working over a period of decades fit in there somewhere.
But mostly they were made with WHIPS.
I believe that the Hebrews made up the stories in the Bible, and I believe that the Egyptians made up the stories about their gods.
There are drawings on how they built the pyramids, but there are no drawings on how your god created the world in just six days. By the way, who created your god?
Where's the paradox?
What paradox?
Fuck you're stupid.
What paradox?
Do you believe in Hansel and Gretel and/or the Stonehenge?
I certainly apply my thought patterns selectively, otherwise I'd believe any cock-and-bull story. I want tangible evidence, like the pyramids in Giza or the Stonehenge, for example.
Combination 1 means that you are applying your thought patterns selectively and therefore your Atheism has no intelectually sound basis and can safely be ignored.
Quite the contrary: To blindly believe everything you are told is intellectually totally unsound and can safely be ignored.
Intellectual honesty includes to critically analyze everything. To dismiss what is nonsense (like the bible), and to accept what has evidence (like the existence of the pyramids)
No paradox at all. Comparing high engineering skills to storytelling.
Amazing what passes for logic in your world.
For one thing, the pyramids are older than 2000 yrs old. And yes, the ancient Egyptians did build them not some imaginary man in the sky. Sorry, buckwheat, but thems the facts.
The pyramids are there. What the fuck has that to do with angels, and how does accepting that pyramids were built by humans undermine atheism's intellectually sound basis?
Basically, WTF are you on about, Stevie boy?
The Great Pyramids were built more than 4,000 years ago. Some were built as long as 4,500 years ago. Your argument is invalid.
Your response to Combination 1 is mere idiocy. There is nothing illogical about humans building pyramids. Sky fairies, however, are a completely different matter.
You are a moron. The length of time between now and some event has no direct relation to its believably. Using that same logic, you MUST believe in the Grand Ipopibobimagicalinging, an event that caused 36,654 antimatter hippos into the world, in 1965, otherwise you are selectively applying your "logic".
The pyramids were built by men. There is a progression of building types that show how the design and materials changed over time.
UFO, crystal levitation and such were not needed.
Where's the paradox? The pyramids are there, solid and tangible. The stories in the Bible is stories in a book. There are other stories in other books that contradict your stories. You do know that the Pyramids were built by people who worshiped completely different gods than your one, right?
What about the stories about what happened a couple of years ago, in a book series about a boy called Harry Potter. It's even more recent than your two items, so it MUST be true, right?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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