Paul's writings are fairly clear on two simple facts in marriage. Men should love their wives. Wives should obey their husbands. The implication is that they, like the men, should obey those who have the rule over them. History teaches that someone must have the final say or else most human relationships, including marriage, degenerate into bickering.
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That a patient, yet firm, across the knees bare bottom spanking(hand or paddle)/whipping(switch or strap) is personal, humiliating, and painful is well known . “It's supposed to [hurt].” That is precisely why, if the practice is not abused, it can be a very effective consequence or discipline ! As a few husbands have discovered, once he has thoroughly prevailed, even an implied threat of another may be sufficient to straighten out marital difficulties for some time to come.
65 comments
Said No One. No one sane or married for long, anyway.
Really, the OP's username is too easy. If this essay wasn't so long, tedious, and offensive to the sensibilities, I might think it was a joke. What a useless, stupid document.
The day my husband does this is the day our marriage ends. I find it appalling that people still believe this way. She is your wife , not your subordinate. She is your partner in life .
I loathe people who think/act like this. It's abuse to beat your wife with anything . Why is that so difficult to grasp? Harming and humiliating your wife will never be acceptable.
I've been on the receiving end of the spanking and whipping described here, albeit from my parents. It did not make me bend to them, and it certainly didn't build God's love in me.
No One, assuming you're being genuine, you are an asshole, and the scant small attention we're giving you here is far too much.
First two sentences: Most certainly true. (I'm a Lutheran; Lutherans use that phrase a lot.)
Third, fourth, and fifth: True-ish, but the wife's opinion must be equally respected. Otherwise, it leads to...
The rest: Abuse, which causes more dysfunction than simple bickering.
In short, husbands must love their wives, but beating the snot out of their wives as "discipline" isn't loving.
"if the practice is not abused"
Doing what you suggest IS abuse, you vile, loathsome earthworm.
That site makes me feel sick! Wives have no obligation to obey their husband, any more than husbands have to obey their wives. A marriage is a PARTNERSHIP, not an ownership! How hard can it be to understand that?
Paul is a well known misogynists; nobody sane adheres to him any more.
History teaches that someone must have the final say or else most human relationships, including marriage, degenerate into bickering.
Ah, the fuhrerprinzip{/i].
Men should love their wives. Wives should obey their husbands
So wives don't have to love their husbands? Good! Divorce is easier when there's less emotional baggage to deal with.
That a patient, yet firm, across the knees bare bottom spanking(hand or paddle)/whipping(switch or strap) is personal, humiliating, and painful is well known. “It's supposed to [hurt].” That is precisely why, if the practice is not abused, it can be a very effective consequence or discipline!
"Kinky" can be fun, but only if she is an equal partner. Oh, let me guess, for this reason actual BDSM would probably be a sin, amirite? This is just seriously fucked up.
As a few husbands have discovered, once he has thoroughly prevailed, even an implied threat of another may be sufficient to straighten out marital difficulties for some time to come.
Is something a sociopath might say.
I'm somewhat in the same boat as doomcup. Spanking (plus constant criticism and belittling) over every minor infraction didn't make me love my parents, or God more, it just made me afraid of them, and all the more determined to get away from them as soon as I possibly could. No mean feat, considering my self-esteem was rock-bottom by my young adult years, and even now in my late 40's I always feel like I'm doing something wrong.
It also made us much more secretive and deceptive, hiding things from our parents became an art form. Another neat trick considering my mom was nosy as shit, and felt perfectly justified in reading our mail, going through our drawers, etc. To this day lying to my mom is an automatic response, no matter the topic or the fact that I've been on my own some 25 years now, and I'm usually honest to a fault with everyone else I know.
So great job No One. Keep up that Christian love, and maybe, just maybe, your spouse will go easy on you in the divorce.
Sounds like a good argument for ignoring most, if not all, of Paul's writings. Seriously, he was a misogynistic, homophobic asshole. This is clear from even the most perfunctory readings of his works. If Jesus really existed (which I doubt), the belief structure he put in place is exceptionally poorly served by the writings of Paul.
Please note: there is only one time when spanking in an adult relationship is acceptable. That's when it's consensual and is a part of the kink they both share. We can explore the psychology behind this aspect of BDSM, but this is the only place where it's appropriate; we can't really control our turn-ons.
I am fascinated by the odd fact that so many religious fundamentalists are categorically unable to conceive of any organizational structure other than dictatorial. "Someone" must always be "in charge," "the final say" to them. They seem utterly incapable of even understanding basic concepts like cooperation, partnership, or group consensus. To them, there must always be a king in every group.
You know, there's a reason it's not common to use corporal punishment in schools anymore. When you take a kid with a behavioral problem and beat them, you don't get a kid with no behavioral problem, you get a PISSED OFF kid who still has a behavioral problem. It just doesn't work, and there are many other, more effective methods to try. I imagine the same a radium applies to wives, except for the fact that if physical punishment is your reaction to your wife disagreeing with you....it's not her that has the behavioral problem.
History teaches that someone must have the final say or else most human relationships, including marriage, degenerate into bickering.
In the United States, we call this person a "judge" who has the power to jail domestic abusers like you.
Funny how the only justification these losers can come up with for believing themselves to have superior wisdom or to be worthy of having authority over women is that Paul said it.
I guess when you're not smart or capable enough to have any position of importance in the real world, it helps to tell yourself you're naturally superior to the other half of the human race, and you're entitled to treat them like three year olds.
These are the people who say that allowing gays to marry will destroy marriage! The marriage licence is not a licence to resort to violence. Striking anyone is violence and abuse. To strike a person you are supposed to love and cherish is a contradiction in terms. If you do so you cannot truly love your partner - note that word implies absolute equality! - is a sure sign that there is no love. The only discipline in marriage is wquality in love. Your beloved Paul says if you have not love you are as a sounding gong. He does not allow for physical violence anywhere. But love cannot be violent - read his description of what love is. The hillbilly ignorance of these people is such that I think I could almost - only almost, as I am not wired for violence - be persuaded that it would be a nice peace of social hygiene to rid the planet of them altogether. Alas, I am unable to descend to the level of the violence that would require.
Even more nauseating are the writings of some of the women, when they talk about how it brings tears to their eyes when they think about how hard it is for their poor husbands (sniff) to have to bear the burden and pain of being "forced" to disipline them, and how wonderfully kind and patient these guys are in carrying out the role that has been forced upon them. Oh, the poor husbands, wimmin can be sooo disobedient and harmful to the family, not getting dinner on at the proper hour because they were goofing off at the mall, and so on. GAG.
1) If you're into BDSM, just be into BDSM. No need to find a Christian excuse for it. Just share your kink with a consenting partner and no-one will care.
2) When administered on an un willing partner, this is called assault (at the least). Finding a Christian excuse does not make it legal.
That a patient, yet firm, across the knees bare bottom spanking(hand or paddle)/whipping(switch or strap) is personal, humiliating, and painful is well known.
Whoa.. repressed feelings anyone?
What is this? a christian BDSM site?
"like the men, should obey those who have the rule over them"
So you people will stop complaining about the government?
When I was preparing for my wedding, we had to talk to the pastor. I explained that, under no circumstances, would the word "obey" be in my vows (nor would my father walk me down the aisle). The pastor, a woman, got up and hugged me. She said I was the first woman to ever say that and she was so proud of me.
I originally wasn't thrilled with a church wedding, but she is the best Pastor ever and I'm glad she married us.
Well, goog luck using that philosophy when dealing with, say, business partners and neighbours. You'll taste your own medicine.
To contend that men "have the rule" over women is arrogant in the extreme.
Spanking/whipping only teaches children that violence is an acceptable answer. Used by a husband on a wife should teach the husband that he is an ex-husband and what life is like in prison.
Damn! What we have here is some serious mansplaining.
In psychiatric terms, someone needs some serious therapy.( Immediately after he is summarily beaten senesless.)
Raised in a nominally Catholic home, my father equated a man who would strike a woman as no better than a rabid dog and thought both should be dealt with in the same manner. I'll bet you're a 5' nothing short fuck too, eh no one?
I read this thing through, and it so fucking weird. It's almost kinky, but they'd probably be pissed off and call someone a "filthy-minded pervert" if anybody pointed that out to them. Do people actually go through with this shit, like, out in the "Heartland"? Do people actually live like this? Those poor, fucked-up women. One of these days, one of those women is going to murder her husband, and I think a lot of people would let her get away with it if she did. Jesus H. Fucking Christ.
"Paul's writings are fairly clear on two simple facts in marriage."
Paul was also considered an asshole by the early Christians. A lying, idiotic jackass who no better understood what Jesus was trying to communicate than a snail understands why the sky is blue.
LDM & DoomCup: Same here, and the self esteem issues remain. It's something I struggle with still and I can relate to the feeling of always doing something wrong.
For what it's worth, I'm sorry you went through that.
Women are not children,and I don't think children should be physically disciplined either.
Adults need to learn to compromise and discuss issues, not simply hurt the other into obeying them.
You are an asshole.
@Liberal Christian
You spank a child for discipline
You spank a child for discipline if you want that kids to abandon you as soon as it's old enough. Don'rt expect much love and caring when you get old. You'll be lonely and die alone.
Passive revenge is very easy. All you have to do is wait.
@ checkmate
"You spank a child for discipline if you want that kid to abandon you as soon as it's old enough. Don't expect much love and caring when you get old. You'll be lonely and die alone."
My father judiciously spanked all of his children. He is now a spritely 87 years of age and is truly loved by all of us and his grandchildren.
Politically correct sweeping statements like yours are why we have a sometimes dysfunctional society. One size does not always fit all.
You better I hope I don't see it No One.
I sometimes hold a lot of rage and I love nothing more then taking it out on men who beat woman.
And there are many more just like me.
This *is* just Christians into BDSM, and no more serious than femdom articles about how men really need to be beaten to stay in line, etc. I don't believe those women really believe it--I don't believe these guys do, either.
Could anyone else just hear the fapping, with all his talk about "bare bottoms" "begging and pleading" and the "promise of peace (release) afterwards"?
And the line about 'she'll feel better once it's over' made me gag
@ Azaqi "I am fascinated by the odd fact that so many religious fundamentalists are categorically unable to conceive of any organizational structure other than dictatorial. "Someone" must always be "in charge," "the final say" to them. They seem utterly incapable of even understanding basic concepts like cooperation, partnership, or group consensus. To them, there must always be a king in every group."
Maybe the reason is this: at the core of the Abrahamic monotheist religions (judaism, christianity, islam) there is a morality of submission to the father figure (and the resulting "ancestor worship" of god, the creator). Do as father says or you will be punished ~ with an eternal spanking in the case of god.
This is why they always have so much trouble squaring Jesus, the philosopher of compassion and neighbourly love, off with this disciplinary crap.
Yes, and arrest is also known to be personal, humiliating, and painful. So go ahead. Try and see which one has the most lasting consequences.
>> once he has thoroughly prevailed, even an implied threat of another may be sufficient to straighten out marital difficulties for some time to come. <<
One of these days, Alice. Bang-ZOOM! To the MOON, Alice. To the moon.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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