Chelleberry #fundie premierchristianity.com
Chellebaby: If God is love and not wrath then why would God's wrath need to be satisfied by Jesus?
Also I take you dismiss the several verses that mention things like the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom? I guess if you don't fear the Lord then you will show a lack of wisdom David.
DavidS: Once you have been saved by Christ you don't need to fear God.
You ask a good question. Perhaps Jesus sacrifice wasn't an act of penal substitution.
I read this article this morning - thought I would share it with you.
Chellebaby: So there does have to be fear before you get saved! That's an excellent point David and one that I agree with.
DavidS: No there doesn't need to be fear. Did you read the article I shared with you? It is possible the word 'fear' is a bad translation (along with all the other bad English translations).
God is love, he wants you to love him, not fear him.
Chellebaby: I know God is love and I do love him. I don't think it is an error in translation but I misunderstanding by people of what the term means. I understand it is a reverence of God. It is a good fear because at the end of the day, my life is God's to do what He desires.
DavidS: There are errors in translation, some of which have come about by mistake, some were deliberate, for example when the KJV was being translated the translators added bits that weren't in the original text, left bits out that were and altered some bits (including parts that King James thought challenged his position and authority). I think this is something we just have to accept.
Your life may be God's to do what he desires, but God doesn't desire to manipulate you or use you as his puppet. He does want us to use our God-give free will, to follow him, but he does allow us to make our own choices, he doesn't force himself on anyone.
I don't believe the word 'fear' here (if we accept that is the right word) means 'to be afraid of'.
Chellebaby: So then why did he have to die on the cross? You theory makes no sense and is as per usual way off the mark. If it is not to pay for our sins then why does the Bible mention over and over again about HIS blood being offered as payment or is that parts of the Bible you don't believe in?
DavidS: Jesus death wasn't the act of a vengeful God but a supreme demonstration of his eternal, great love for us.
Chellebaby: There are other ways he could have shown love, so why did he have to die David?
DavidS: He died to defeat death so that we may have eternal life.
Chellebaby:
Doesn't answer the question does it David? Why did his death defeat death so we can have eternal life? What was he defeating?
DavidS: He was defeating death.
Chellebaby: So you don't really have an answer then? Just going to repeat the same sentence over and over which does not answer the question.
DavidS: I've given you an answer, sorry if you can't see that.
Chellebaby: Haha no you haven't. I'm sorry if you can't see that you haven't.
DavidS: Look again.
Chellebaby: Don't need to. I know you haven't answered so if you have nothing further to add then I will shake the dust off my feet and will be done with you.
DavidS: Bless you Chelle.
