You can't ignore the vast amounts of evidence for the miraculous intercession of saints. I have personal experience of someone very close who has recently had a miraculous cure after asking for help to intercede from a deceased friend who was a very devout Christian.
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Well, no. I can't ignore the vast amounts of testimony, crediting the various saints with miracles.
I can, however, question whether that's exactly what happened, and whether it's attributed properly.
For example, just how 'miraculous' was this cure for a close friend? How well documented was the original condition? Did they eschew ALL forms of treatment and only ask dead friends for help? How did doctors describe/explain the cure?
So you're saying that there's something in ancestor worship? In that case...:
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...those on Rapa Nui got it right then, Al.
"Personal experience" "someone very close" ("miraculous cure") "asking" "deceased friend" ...
That's not a very "personal" experience, Alan. "God" to dead Christian to ill friend to you sounds more like fourth hand experience, including two entities not available to answer questions, so it can't count as evidence. On the other hand, I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you.
Alan really sets the bar for gullibility.
Anytime these guys hear of something medical fortunately beating the low odds of successful recovery the story becomes "miraculously cured" with a splash of "doctors said it was hopeless".
One fundie nutbag pulled this shit at my parent's funeral loudly proclaiming while waving their arms in the air that someone in their congregation was magically healed of cancer the day my parent accepted jebus and was saved. The "saving" event changed nothing about my parent's lifestyle and they didn't become long term active, the congregational members "cancer" wasn't as I found out from a member of that persons family it was a fast growing cyst that the body took care of itself which is not unusual.
All that was achieved was some gullible funide, like Alan, making a spectacle of an intimate event that was supposed to be about my parent. Fuck you Alice, it's the only highlight I really remember about the event now.
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(edit 2: My apologies.
So are you are prepared to dismiss any personal witness stories which offer evidence of God and His relationship with mankind?
If so, it is yet more justification for Sassy's opening post on this thread which states: "it is abundantly clear that people do not seek the truth regarding God but simply reasons to keep from believing in him"
Yes Alan, I am ready to dismiss the credulous claims of the gullible who offer no evidence for them except their tales and who lie about others claiming that they are dishonest for not accepting their credulous nonsense about their invisible friends.)
And for every miracle, there's a thousand tragicles that get ignored because they don't fit neatly into the believer's confirmation bias. Almost like it's just a statistical display of odds playing out.
If this praying shit worked, why don't the devout among us have a discount on their insurance?
"Saint", in the sense which you are most likely using it, is a title bestowed by the Catholic church posthumously . The effects of dead people can't be further tested. So while you can't entirely deny it, you can't reasonably affirm it either.
Someone very close who shall, of course, remain unnamed.
What about the millions of devout Christians who had a fatal illness and died from it? Oh right, it was just their time, part of God's plan, yada yada.
BTW, I am a staunch atheist, and I had a large mole on my arm disappear all by itself. Praise.... nothing.
You can't ignore the vast amounts of evidence for the miraculous intercession of saints.
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Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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