Quote# 99445

In your worldview, pain and suffering are simply chemical reactions taking place in a bag of chemicals. Why would that be wrong? When baking soda reacts with vinegar do you get upset? Do you say that it is morally wrong? Your view of morality does not comport with your view on origins. In my worldview, people have intrinsic and objective value, since they are made in the image of God. It is because the Bible is true that we can call pain and suffering "bad." In the evolutionary view, they can never be more than chemistry.]

Jason Lisle, Jason Lisle's blog 18 Comments [2/19/2014 4:11:48 AM]
Fundie Index: 15
Submitted By: Tony

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anothga

No, they are not just chemical reaction but also electrical impulses. They tell the human brain that there's something bad happening to human body, such as getting cut with a knife or being bitten by a snake. We developed this during evolution so we can know if something that can kill us is going on so our survival rate can get higher. Your God was not and is not important in this process.
Let's put it this way: let's say you get bitten by a poisonous snake. Is that good or bad? Why?

2/19/2014 4:36:30 AM

Passerby

Isn't this a repost? Looks familiar.

2/19/2014 5:26:07 AM

Captain Bacardi

You see, Jason, the rest of us have this little thing we like to call "empathy." We suffer, it sucks, and we therefore infer that when others suffer it must suck as well.

"Survival of the fittest" does not mean that the strongest individuals thrive while the weakest are left to languish. Quite the contrary; "survival of the fittest" has nothing to do with individuals but rather refers to species. One of the evolutionary traits that gives humanity its dominance is our sociability. We have strong degrees of individuality but, at the end of the day, we are social creatures. The strong and capable among us lift up the weak and incapable and the species as a whole is stronger for it. The reverse might make individuals strong for a time but harms the species as a whole. Empathy is an evolutionary advantage and is a product of the same exact natural processes creationists despise so strongly.

It is this evolved sense of empathy that tells us that we have an innate interest in limiting the pain and suffering of those around us. It is empathy that forces us to see others around us as simply more than bags of chemical reactions, so to speak. Sociopathy, on the other hand, does more harm in the long run than could ever be outweighed by whatever short term benefits it might produce.

Oddly enough, religion often breeds sociopathy, as religious fanatics will justify any and all cruel behavior if it advances the cause of their "god." They are also blinded to empathy by the very cognitive dissonance that is essential to propping up their world view in the face of increasingly contradictory facts. I would argue that, properly understood, naturalistic models based on atheistic assumptions account for morality than religion ever could. Life is short, life is precious, and therefore life ought to be considered valuable and treated as such.

2/19/2014 6:04:41 AM

Kuno

Yep, it's a repost.

2/19/2014 6:06:31 AM

Sangfroid

Pain and suffering are not simple chemical reactions, you stupid fucking moron, and not a single person I know says so.

Jason is a liar, liar, liar.

2/19/2014 6:37:53 AM

Mister Spak

"It is because the Bible is true that we can call pain and suffering "bad." In the evolutionary view, they can never be more than chemistry.]"

No it's because of evolution that pain and suffering is bad. Pain evolved because things that felt pain avoided damaging events, thus living longer and having mor decendents who inherited their survival enhancing pain experiencing.

Your argument negates the assumpions your argument presupposes.
.

2/19/2014 7:00:38 AM

Doubting Thomas

If you can't understand why pain and suffering are wrong, then you're a totally horrible person. And from what I've seen, most fundies have problems understanding it.

2/19/2014 7:12:27 AM

pyro

Repost. Just as stupid the second time around.

2/19/2014 8:34:59 AM

Tony

mmm i think it is a repost,but again its just as stupid the second time around

2/19/2014 8:48:58 AM

Dr. Shrinker

In my worldview, people have intrinsic value because they are human. We share a common nature by virtue of evolution. Furthermore, when injustice and torment are tolerated or justified for one group, it makes it that much easier for another group to do the same to the groups I belong to.

Ethics does not require a god. The ancient Greeks knew this, and so do I.

2/19/2014 8:50:11 AM

Nagol

When baking soda reacts with vinegar it doesn't cause another thinking feeling human being pain. Learn what empathy is and try to develop some.

2/19/2014 9:27:06 AM

freako104

Jason Lisle doesn't understand evolution

2/19/2014 10:32:35 AM

dp

"In your worldview, pain and suffering are simply chemical reactions taking place in a bag of chemicals. Why would that be wrong?"

it wouldn't. why the hell should pain and suffering be wrong?

anyway, i'm sure this is a repeat. either that or lisle is repeating, which isn't unlikely.

2/19/2014 2:15:24 PM

Old Viking

Opponents are always grateful when Jason defines their views for them.

2/19/2014 2:33:08 PM

Pule Thamex

Bible God isn't evil and doesn't cause pain because He doesn't exist. Although, for something that doesn't exist, He sure causes a lot of commotion in your head. It seems to be a right old pile-up in there. It wouldn't surprise me if outside observers thought there was something slightly more serious than stupidity going on up top.

2/19/2014 4:34:39 PM

Qazamir McSmarty Britches

In your worldview, pain and suffering are simply chemical reactions taking place in a bag of chemicals

In my worldview these "bags of chemicals" are called "people".

When baking soda reacts with vinegar do you get upset?

No, but when people suffer I do.

In my worldview, people have intrinsic and objective value

Mine too.

And how does this prove that they are made in the image of God?

In the evolutionary view, they can never be more than chemistry.

You don't get this thing we call "empathy" do you?

2/20/2014 2:23:53 AM



In my worldview, people have no intrinsic or objective value, since we are all worthless compared to God.

Sorry Jason, I can't hear you over your worldview shoving the whole "Humanity isn't worth shit" on everyone...

2/20/2014 11:38:37 AM

Goomy pls

ARGHH WHY DID THE BICARBONATE OF SODA HAVE TO REACT WITH MY ACETIC ACID

Average Helicalist says: "In my worldview life is intrinsically important because of moral values made by the creator, moral values immortalized in the DIVINE HELIX FOSSIL. Oh wait, that's basically your worldview with a different god. How do you react? 'I'm right, you're wrong?'"

I say: In my worldview life is intrinsically important to morality because morality evolved as a useful utility to preserve the species.

2/21/2014 4:32:10 PM

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