West Australian Liberal MP Don Randall is under fire over comments he made about Julia Gillard's religious views.
The member for Canning says many people in his electorate and across the country do not like the fact Ms Gillard is an atheist.
...
"It's a criticism of the fact that the electorate has deep concerns about an un-godly leader leading Australia," he said.
Mr Randall says Australia was built on Christian values, which provide the basis for being a better leader.
"We expect out leaders to convey and portray good Christian values," he said.
94 comments
Actually, as a British colony, it was built as a prison, first and foremost...
Besides, isn't "Good Christian Values" an oxymoron?
C'mon, I think we all know that Australia as a country was originally a penal colony, and so all or most of your ancestors were not exactly the most christian bunch. If you want to make the argument about preserving your values you should really be worrying more about preserving your prison values more than christian ones. Here's a new national motto to get you started:
"Saponem non demittit"
"The member for Canning says many people in his electorate and across the country do not like the fact Ms Gillard is an atheist."
Well, Don, even more people across Australia probably dislike the fact that you're an embarrassing fucktard.
Ah, a local...
Seriously, this fuckwit represents my part of Perth.
I was almost totally unaware that we even had this kind of religious idiocy down here.
This annoys me, greatly.
"it was built as a prison, first and foremost..."
To be fair, the most common crime was being poor and in debt. The initial goal was to turn commoners back into serfs again. When that failed the British jumped on the using-brown-people-as-slaves bandwagon.
Oh great, now Australia's got the same idiots that we have in the US. Can we please just pack them all on a rocket and send them to the moon, where they can establish a colony built on Christian values, one that's far away from the rest of us?
On second thought, though, they'd probably blow up the moon.
Yeah, what a sad move it would be to have people leading a country who don't believe in imaginary friends, imaginary places and talking snakes.
@Creedence Leonore Gielgud
Well being poor was more of the cause than the reason, the most common crime you got deported for was theft of goods valued under 14s, theft of goods valued over 14s of course was a capital offence.
Well, modern-day statistics support Mr Randall - the amount of Christians in prisons is abnormally high, and Australia was founded as a penal colony...
Tells a lot about these "Christian values", doesn't it?
West Australian Liberal MP Don Randall...says many people in his electorate and across the country do not like the fact Ms Gillard is an atheist.
Then those people are religious bigots.
Mr Randall says Australia was built on Christian values, which provide the basis for being a better leader.
History disagrees with Mr Randall on both points.
The member for Canning says many people in his electorate and across the country do not like the fact Ms Gillard is an atheist.
Well excuse us for existing. I had no idea we had to get people's permission.
The member for Canning says many people in his electorate and across the country do not like the fact Ms Gillard is an atheist.
Tough shit, you live in a democracy so deal with it.
Mr Randall says Australia was built on Christian values
Really? So you don't allow people to covet, use god's name in vain, work on Sunday, make graven images, disrespect their parents, have other gods, or lie? Somehow I doubt that. Also, you're clearly breaking Jesus' commandment to love your enemies. If Christians can't even be arsed to follow their own rules then why should anyone else have to?
@ Mr Spak.
I admire your work tremendously.
'Religion' appears as follows:
Pretty much answers Randall's delusions.
Being Christian =/= having "Christian values". Some atheists do exactly what God and Jesus said people should do: they love their neighbors, give to the poor, remain faithful to their spouses, etc. Some Christians are bad people who do none of these things. The jails are full of them.
Another John Howard wannabe. Christian Values? Is that how you rebrand an entire continent that was used as a penal colony?
Like religious zealots are people to have in charge of a country.. just ask Iran.
[Headache Mode]
Don Randall is a silly man who needs to keep his dogma to himself.
I thought Oz was built on a prison value: warders and crims!
(sorry, that is a joke)
It really doesn't matter the origins, it's the present that counts
BTW
there were people there before the British arrived with their missionaries slithering in after them!
And what the hell are "Christian values"? There are two billion Christians in the world, with very different social and political views.
To call your values "Christian values" as if all two billion people of your faith agrees with you is the height of arrogance.
@John_in_oz:
You're forgetting the Dutch, French, Scottish, Spanish, and Swedish colonies that we purchased or quietly "subsumed", as well as the various colonies started for religious or commercial reasons. Indentured servants were only part of early American immigration (about 50,000 of the 5 million immigrants from 1500 to 1700). Most of the immigrants in that time were looking for work or the chance to start a business in a fresh market (kinda like now).
To be the "majority" of immigrants, the UK would have sent over three million convicts. (Besides, for every prisoner the UK dumped on us, we bought three slaves from Africa.) Most UK penal colonists of the times were sent to Bermuda, to build the docks and infrastructure that were needed in Bermuda's role as a stopping point on the way to the American colonies.
(This has been another episode of Far More Than You Wanted To Know. Tune in next time...)
So Don, have you murdered your disobedient son outside the city gates yet? No? You BAD CHRISTIAN!
Also, I somehow doubt any of the persons arriving in Australia 40,000 years ago where Christians, good or otherwise.
Christian Values? Deported convicts and genocide, you mean?
Wonderful, I can't bring myself to vote Labor in part due to the influence a minority Christian group has over them, e.g. Conroy's web filtering, and while Gillard gets some respect for stating she's an atheist, sharing a common lack of belief doesn't mean I agree with her other views.
And the Liberals fall over themselves to alienate me. Thankfully I'm not quite in this idiot's constituency.
What gets me is that he's a liberal politician. Now, I'm an American, and I know that political terms vary from place to place, but how is it in any way "liberal" to criticize another leader based not on their views but solely on their religious beliefs, which have no bearing on their governance? Liberalism is about tolerance of those different from you. Don Randall is no liberal in my book.
Australia didn't have an inch of religious value when founded compared to America, all we cared about was making our own country because UK was still sending crap to us which we weren't anymore.
P.S. Shithead Americans out there - Where do you think they sent British prisoners before 1788??? I'll give you a tip, they didn't get overcrowded from an increase in crime.
THAT'S A BLOODY OUTRAGE THAT IS! I'M GONNA REPORT THIS TO MY MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT!
[leans out the window, looking into pig pen]
OI GUS! I'VE GOT SOMETHIN' TO REPORT TO YA!
To many posters here :
West Australia, where this fucknuckle hails from was not, originally set up as a penal colony. The East coast, Sydney etc, was but the Swan River colony was started as a free pioneer settlement.
@ Wehpudicabok
He is a big-L Liberal. That's the name of our main conservative party, members of which are generally not considered to be little-L liberals.
I agree, it can be confusing.
@ all the penal colony stuff
I'm stunned about <b>how many</b> posters mention the penal colony thing. Sure, it's true, but is that all you know about Australia? People don't bang on about Jamestown every time someone mentions the US.
Perth (i.e. the colony of relevance to Mr Randall) was founded as a free settlement. Convicts only arrived many years later when the settlers decided they'd like some free labour.
@ notions Australia is in the same situation as the US regarding Christianity
Naturally we do have some extremist Christians. But IMHO the situation is good (i.e. secular) and getting better. We are actually at the point where our country's leader can admit to being an athiest without it being political suicide. Is that true of the USA? I don't think it is, though I'm hoping one day soon it might be.
Does anyone here realize how strange it is to hear any political person in Australia mentioning religion?
I don't think even the Christian Democratic party even mentions god all that much...or really at all. The idea of having someone in politics trying to introduce religion so blatantly is rather strange...well in Australia at least.
''Australia was built on Christian values''.
This is the true problem with religion. It cannot keep its nose out of politics. It cannot accept that not everyone needs of wants religion. This brings it to the point where it impinges on the liberties of citizens. I don't know it Australia has a constitution, but every country that does, should have a clause that automatically disqualifies any politician commenting on the religion/lack of religion of any citizen.
"many people in his electorate and across the country do not like the fact Ms Gillard is an atheist"
Well then I guess you should have voted against her then, shouldn't you?
Our longest-serving Labor prime minister was openly agnostic. It didn't do him any harm - and nor will it to Ms Gillard. For the overwhelming majority of Australians, the religious backgrounds of candidates doesn't even register as a factor in their voting inclinations. Those that are fundie enough to care will more likely vote for one of the minor religious parties anyway. Don Randall's comments are highly atypical of the Australian political scene and reveal just how ignorant of community sentiment he is. Fortunately his reelection is far from certain as his main opponent will be a fairly popular former member of the state parliament. Perhaps his comments were some sort of tactical move, but I am not sure that they won't backfire on him. By the way, s.116 of the Constitution makes it abundantly clear that Australia is a secular nation.
As to the penal colony comments, they only really apply to Tasmania and New South Wales.
South Australia and Victoria didn't receive convicts, Western Australia only later, Queensland was split off from NSW.
Furthermore on the poor 'convict country' view of Australia, ironically, now one of our biggest tourism targets is Britain, they're sick of being stuck in their gloomy small island with a lack of beaches and we're living in a giant non-American, non-materialistic version of California, what more could you want?
@ Wehpudicabok: Put it this way, are "Republicans" constantly advocating America become more of a Republic? Political party names can often have very little to do with the party objectives, especially if they are very old. Confusingly a "Republican" in Australia is a political term describing someone who advocates we become a republic rather than the democratic monarchy we are now.
But do note Americans that Don Randall is "under fire" about his comments rather than being lauded or applauded. Even the churches here have distanced themselves from the issue of Gillard's Atheism (but strangely they have attacked her unmarried status).
Oh, go fuck yourself, Randall! Australia was NOT built on christian values. It was settled by British convicts. Gillard is not without her flaws, but let's face it, you don't like her because she's a woman, don't you? What the fuck does being an atheist got to do with running a country? You want fundie christian leaders? Go to the USA.
@ Mister Spak
@ Wehpudicabok
Australian conservative PM Sir Robert Menzies (the chap who tried to get communism outlawed in Australia) gave the "Liberal" party it's name sort of as a giant "Fuck You" to liberals everywhere.
@ All my fellow Aussies getting pissed off at the whole convict thing.
Stop being so bloody hypersensitive for fucks sake! The Yanks over the pond go out there and tell the entire planet that their country is full of people like this.
image
Quite possibly descended from a pre 1788 convict who may or may not have been convicted for actually stealing from himself.
(American says something dumb)
Rest of the world: Lol, Americans are dumb.
Rest of the world: Lol, that guy is dumb. By the way, Americans are dumb too.
@ Tolpuddle Martyr:
Jokes are fine, but they're American, so they're probably stupid enough to believe that all Australians are convicts living in the desert or something.
@ #1186619:
It's soooo hard not to generalise America, let alone the fact that it's enjoyable to give them a taste of their own medicine.
@ #1186616: What are you talking about?! Neighbours is hilarious! Do you know how many of my friends have just rocked up and got a part with lines on the show? My friend's friend played Stingray. And I mean Home and Away is just so sad that it's funny as well, I mean it's like "Duh, okay, let's make a show where all the guys are on steroids and all the girls use enough makeup for a troop of clowns and then every so often we'll add stalkers and lesbians!"
@ Raynfala:
Australia never needed it :)
@#1186619
I know! It would be an outrage, too, if it weren't precisely what Americans do to everyone else...the beam in one's eye, etc, etc.
Yes The Preamble to our constitution reads:
116. The Commonwealth shall not make any law for establishing any religion,
@ Neith:
To be honest, I'm kind of caught up, I'd rather a completely agnostic person with no belief/disbelief to run a country with the non-bias compared to an atheist who might not factor religion in at all.
Then again, I'm most certainly not going to vote for a fundie catholic who thinks women should always do the ironing and stay virgins until they're 30 and I mean, what little argument I have against an atheist Prime Minister probably won't even be important, she might just have the same non-bias perspectives as somebody with absolutely no belief/disbelief.
"Mr Randall says Australia was built on Christian values, which provide the basis for being a better leader."
I think you'll find that Australia was built on the foundations of the Aboriginal peoples, and their pre-Christian beliefs. Later, the influx of convicts. Who weren't exactly, by definition, imbued with 'Christian values'. (no offence to our Australian commenters)
"We expect out leaders to convey and portray good Christian values,"
Nick Clegg, leader of the Liberal Democrats and Deputy Prime Minister of the Lib-Con coalition government here in the UK, is an Atheist.
Your call, Don.
How disappointing. The brainlessness of conservative American 'Christians' has extended to the wonderful land Down Under.
Go fall off a boat in the Neptune Islands, fuckwit - and then see if Jeebus will save you from the Great White Sharks that live there.
"The member for Canning says many people in his electorate and across the country do not like the fact Ms Gillard is an atheist."
Clearly, however, they were not a sufficiently large voting block to actually beat her, so it's probably not that big of a deal.
@ Mitch
Australia is a great country. Very nice weather I'm told, though I think I would get to missing the snow after a bit (I understand it does snow regularly in the more southern areas, but I believe it's pretty rare in most of the country.) Those Australians I have met have been lovely people, and not the least bit murder-inclined. I'm sure no one intended to imply otherwise, not even the Americans (okay I'm not 100% sure, but even Americans can be non-ethnocentric much of the time.)
@ mitch
Australia was built on christian values? Quick! Someone tell the christian fundies in America! They've got it all confused! It's not America that was founded on christianity, it was Australia! I'd like to donate 35 cents to the fundie relocation program. Sorry about that Aussies! Good luck! Call us if you need anything!
Actually, Australia is one of the most progressive countries in the world because being so young it doesn't have the set-in-stone moral and religious values that have been around in England and America for hundreds of years..
Why else do you think women got the vote here so early one? Because of Christians?!?!
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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