Unfortunately NOTHING will happen. This bill will pass. People like me with private health insurance will lose it. People with chronic disabling diseases like my husband will be told they are no longer productive and not worth treating and die. People who work will pay higher taxes to pay for this non -healthcare healthcare. Everyone will pay more for all the goods and services we use so the companies can pay the higher taxes. And Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and all their ilk and President Obama will sit and sip fine brandy and eat a $500 dinner to celebrate triumphantly the death of America. And be re-elected at the next election.
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Understanding the basic concept of public health care (as in, health care that's accessible to everyone and supported via taxes) FAIL.
Also, private companies have already killed millions of people by denying them life-saving procedures that you'd have to be a millionaire to afford on your own.
"People with chronic disabling diseases like my husband will be told they are no longer productive and not worth treating and die."
You know, this is really sad. People like RuntheRace listen to and trust and believe Palin, Rush, et al. They really do believe that the health care bill will set up 'death panels' to decide who is too old and sick to be worth treating. And the Rapture Ready/social conservative demographic is mostly older people, many struggling with health problems of their own.
They're terrified. It's understandable: many, many people, who they trust absolutely, have told them that their government intends to betray and kill them. Literally millions of these people are living in fear and despair because some bloated toads in the Republican movement think that frightening them with lies will win them votes. It's sad. And sickening.
What is guaranteed to kill America - the American economy and the American social structure - is a refusal to reform your ridiculously expensive health care system. Companies can no longer afford the exorbitant insurance fees to provide coverage for their employees and as a result are hiring people on a temporary basis and renewing those contracts repeatedly. Such tactics effectively cut people off from affordable* medical care and ensure that when illness strikes they face almost insurmountable financial hardship. A society that places a large proportion of its citizens on such a knife-edge is taking one hell of a gamble and the only thing it achieves is to keep people poor, powerless and vulnerable. It's a millstone around every American citizen's neck, one that is inexorably dragging your country down. Provision of and access to decent health care is, as far as I and many others are concerned, a basic human right. Give the American people ten years of socialised health care, hold a referendum and I guarantee the majority will not vote to get rid of it.
You post on Rapture Ready so therefore I assume you claim to be a christian. To be a christian you have to follow the teachings of christ. Christ did not teach "I'm all right, Jack, fuck you". You're a disgrace.
*as if how much you earn should ever be a criterion for access to health care, ffs!
@ BobsOldSocks --
*as if how much you earn should ever be a criterion for access to health care, ffs!
It should be if you ask most of the GOP and anyone who listens to them. Sure, they phrase it differently -- access to healthcare is an "individual responsibility", and anyone who can't afford decent healthcare has only themself to blame, since our being the most capitalist culture on the planet means we must have opportunities everywhere, etc., etc., etc. It's still the same thing -- if you don't have the money to afford basic necessities, it's your own fault and a sign that you're a bad person.
@Professor M
"It's still the same thing -- if you don't have the money to afford basic necessities, it's your own fault and a sign that you're a bad person."
I think that ties in with what I perceive (and I may be wrong: I'm an outsider, although I have friends in the US, so forgive me if don't quite understand) as an over emphasis on self-reliance and the pioneering individual. Individualism definitely has its place but in every human endeavour - from the conquest of Everest to the discovery of a vaccine for Smallpox - those credited with whatever the notable achievements are have had to rely heavily on colleagues, supporters, friends, family and society as a whole. Humanity's greatest achievements have been made possible by our ability to act in an altruistic fashion and we all can, and should, take pride in the successes of the famous few. We allowed them to make the attempt to reach beyond their (and our) grasp. All of us.
It's wrong, fundamentally so, that anyone in any country - especially an industrialised nation - can face losing their home and perhaps even their life because of extortionate health care costs. America can get this right, I know it can, and I hope it's sooner - much sooner - rather than later.
Actually, I suspect it's more fundamental than it looks. These people have this notion that God rewards those who deserve it or rewards people based upon his "plan."
If you're rich, then either God has rewarded you or it's according to his "plan." If you're poor then it's because God is punishing you or it's according to his "plan."
Notice how they can't lose here. Even if you consider an obviously righteous poor person, they're poor because God has a "plan."
Correcting the situation is messing with God's will or God's "plan." In other words they have their heads shoved about as far up their asses as they can get them.
"people like me with private health insurance will lose it"
Where do they get this crap?
Not only does the bill fail to provide an alternative to exorbitantly priced private insurance, it mandates that everyone must purchase private insurance or face stiff fines. Subsidies supposedlly will be offered to help the poor buy coverage, but we all know how many people that leaves out.
If the bill that passed stands as it is now, insurance companies can charge people over 50 up to three times higher premiums than everyone else (and for those non-Americans out there, it's not unusual for people in their thirties in my state to pay $450-$550 per month, with a $2500 annual deductible and no drug coverage--so, triple that). There is no limit on premium prices for those with pre-existing conditions, and yearly out-of-pocket expenses can be as much as $10,000 per year. And we'll have no option not to buy some piece-of-shit policy just to comply with the law, even if we get virtually nothing for our money.
So, RuntheRace, stop whining about your precious private health insurance companies. They've never had it so good.
@mad the swine
"Literally millions of these people are living in fear and despair because some bloated toads in the Republican movement think that frightening them with lies will win them votes. It's sad. And sickening. "
And, unfortunately, it works.
Universal health care will come. No matter the lies and disinformation you spout, it will come.
You must think all Americans are as stupid and ignorant as you.
You Republicans have already subverted the Democrats by turning a truly comprehensive universal single payer health care system (liberal goal), into the largest bailout bill ever written which pays out to the insurance industry (conservative goal). Congratulations; you won.
Don't you dare claim that the liberals will start coming for you if it passes. That's just having your cake (buying the loyalty of your biggest campaign contributors) and eating it too (spreading conservative fundie FUD).
You shouldn't mix private insurance companies with health care at all. When you are sick, you need care, regardless of income or inheritance. Sure, money could buy you a nicer room at the hospital, but you do not need better care because you are rich.
If America is dead, then there is no-one to re-elect Obama, dumbass!
"People with chronic disabling diseases like my husband will be told they are no longer productive and not worth treating and die"
That's what private health insurance companies do NOW!!! They won't cover people with pre-existing conditions like cancers because its a "waste" of money to the company. They will have to keep on paying for that person's treatment until their inevitable death, which seems redundant to them. The reason we SHOULD treat them is because it is the humane thing to do, and maybe they will live long enough to see a cure, instead of letting them live suffering without coverage.
If they're reelected, then they will presumably have done the will of the majority. You don't hate democracy, do you? Oh, I remember now: The will of the majority is sacred, but only with regard to same-sex marriage.
" People like me with private health insurance will lose it. People with chronic disabling diseases like my husband will be told they are no longer productive and not worth treating and die. People who work will pay higher taxes to pay for this non -healthcare healthcare. Everyone will pay more for all the goods and services we use so the companies can pay the higher taxes."
All these things already happened under Dumbya.
We in the UK have had the National Health Service since the late 1940s. We're still here.
It's good to see your country finally catching up, RuntheRace.
Pun intended.
"People like me with private health insurance will lose it."
What? How an earth does this even relate to whether there is a public health system? Look at England, or Canada, or Australia...or really any country with both private and public health care systems. The private system improves as it becomes an "elite" style system with better health care than public systems, but the public system is for those who cannot afford health care and will still provide adequate care. Best and worst case combined to benefit both those who have money, and those who do not.
The system, as far as I can tell, may be thrown through a bit of an upheaval as it accommodates the new arrangement, but the result will be far better than it is now. (Theoretically, assuming that those in charge of the public system are not complete idiots and know how to run a system without the concept of profits)
Ah yes this is all that "end of life counselling" malarky.
1. Newsflash, some people really shouldn't be resuscitated. Terminally ill people often sign DNR waivers for a reason. Because resuscitation hurts.
2. Old people have stuff to sort out before they die. Such as wills and funeral expenses and so on. Telling them that they should do that isn't stupid.
3. Telling people the honest truth about treatment (you have cancer and are 70? Chances are the meds will kill you before the cancer can. Go out and live your life, don't sit in a hospital fighting for your life due to the chemo)
This ironically increases life expectancy because insurance agencies aren't cashing out on elderly who require a different care level and doctors aren't prescribing stupid treatments.
And there is no law against keeping PRIVATE insurance. Its just that you have public healthcare as well so IF you ever lose your insurance your covered.
Your husband has a chronic disabling disease? What a coincidence! So do many people from other countries, none of whom have died because the government arbitrarily decided not to cover them*. I live in Canada, where I know several people with chronic illnesses, who require expensive drugs, or who are otherwise not especially productive. Interestingly enough, these people all get healthcare, which many of them would not be able to afford in the US. I wonder how many of those people people would have died in the US because their private health insurance arbitrarily refused to cover their treatment? Or because they had a serious pre-existing condition, and thus couldn't get private health insurace in the first place?
Sarah Palin was BSing when she said sh*t like that! Urgh! It makes me so mad...you know, if you actually did some research (i.e., two freaking seconds on Google) you'd see that evil socialist medicine is, in fact, generally helpful for the entire society it belongs too.
Blame the fucking Republican and their insurance company lobbyist buddies for creating a virtually worthless bill. If your government had any balls they would take the insurance companies out of the equation completely. That way a dollar spent on healthcare is a dollar spent on healthcare, not 50 cents on healthcare and 50 cents on profits.
Fuck 'em.
Funny thing. My mom, who has breast cancer, and "decent" health insurance, her insurance won't cover any of her treatments, other than the 20 percent of her mastectomy, and that was after she had to have a part of her body cut off as an outpatient procedure because the insurance company decided it wouldn't cover it as an inpatient.
The sad part is, my mom is against universal health care because somehow she thinks she'll get less coverage than she already is.
Let's put it like this: If this country actually cared about it's most valuable commodity (workforce) then I wouldn't be sitting here with aching muscles, a cough and a sniff, just to make those extra hundred dollars to pay (overpriced) rent.
If America wants things done right, America needs to invest in education and health care, otherwise, you'll have an un-eductaed, un-healthy and therefore un-productive workforce.
It's your support of the republican lies that fills their brandy glasses.
People with chronic disabling diseases like my husband will be told they are no longer productive and not worth treating and die.
No, people like your husband will be told that they will not have to pay as much for their treatments. What if your private health insurance didn't cover your hubby's treatment? He'd still be fucked.
No loss of private insurance. None.
People with chronic conditions will be able to buy insurance at the same rates as everyone else.
If you can not afford insurance the government will help you afford it.
If you can afford insurance but choose not to get it, you pay a tax penalty.
The insurance companies and the health care system will have to get real about costs to keep their profits while everyone gets the medical care they need.
You prefer kids dying because they cannot afford to go to a doctor ?
you prefer diabetics to go blind, lose feet and go on disability because they can not afford a doctor visit every three months ? (about $600 a visit with lab tests)
You swallowed the Republican agenda hook, line and sinker, didn't you?
What a tool. Your corporate masters would be proud of you... if they regarded you as anything more than a useful idiot, to be discarded as soon as you get them what they want. And the saddest thing of all is, you'll never realize it.
Yup. That's exactly what happens here in Canada. Why I remember how my friend was consigned to die rather than get an artificial heart valve put in.
Oh, no WAIT! Thanks to our health care system, he not only got a valve put in, courtesy of the nasty old government, he also had a family doctor to consult with, and track his recovery well, WELL after the surgery, as well as the medication to help keep him healthy and productive.
Yup, all because of the evil, evil socialistic health care.
Oh, and tell me, my dear. If you lost your PRIVATE insurance, and he had to reapply to another one, how many would accept to treat his preexisting condition...?
Go ahead, I'll wait.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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