[Regarding a woman who left the Quiverfull movement and apologised for putting God before her kids.]
She apologied for putting God before her family....?
Oops. Sorry, PC crowd, but God is supposed to come first...A #1...in everything. Ahead of yourself, ahead of your spouse, ahead of your kids...(oh noez, he said in front of your KIDS!!!)...yup. That's how it's SUPPOSED to work.
Putting God second...even after your precious little munchkins...is a disaster waiting to happen.
103 comments
Ok, so if you had to choose between worshipping God and supporting your children, you'd choose the former? The lady left the movement because her daughter attempted suicide, and the group was preventing her from being more attentive to her child.
You are sick. I hope CPS finds you and takes your kids away.
Edit: There are more comments on the article that are similar to this drivel. Some even commenting on how there is no "overpopulation crisis" (as the Quiverfull movement is about making kids with no intent of using birth control). I am still amazed how many delusional people there are in this country.
"Oops. Sorry, PC crowd, but God is supposed to come first...A #1...in everything. Ahead of yourself, ahead of your spouse, ahead of your kids...(oh noez, he said in front of your KIDS!!!)...yup. That's how it's SUPPOSED to work."
If you truly believed this you'd be unemployed, homeless and preaching your precious gospel to anyone who would listen while relying on the charity of others to keep yourself from starving to death. God will provide, after all. Even Jesus said you should sell all of your possessions and give the money to the poor if you want to follow him.
I'm going to take a wild guess and say you're one of those goofy fundy fuckers driving a $65,000 gas guzzling SUV monstrosity with a house they can't afford and debt up to their eyeballs. I'm making such a guess since it's been my experience that people who claim to put "god" first put the All Mighty Dollar above all else. Apparently they haven't read what their Bible says in numerous places about the worship of money and material goods over spiritual riches.
"Putting God second...even after your precious little munchkins...is a disaster waiting to happen."
It's quite easy to show your kids exist. Until you can do the same for your invisible friend the kids should come first.
Oops, sorry, morons, but real people are supposed to come before even the most dearly held fictional characters.
Even if your God was real, any omnipotent being who would require you to put him before your children wouldn't be worth spit.
A God who doesn't understand that you were too busy keeping your kids alive to suck his cock is not worth worshiping.
Families support each other. They don't brainwash, sacrifice, abandon or marginalize each other. For all their emphasis on "family values," the fundies don't seem to understand that a family is more than a person with a penis and a person with a vagina capable of using those organs to produce biological children.
I seem to remember the commandment saying some variation of, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me."
Funny, I see no mention of rug rats in there.
Adding to the Word! No Heaven for you!
Read the woman's story at her blog:
www.nolongerquivering.com
It's a tragic story about how these fundie cults destroy lives.
My children need my support and protection. Your god, quite by definition, needs neither from me. Sorry if that's too worldly a philosophy for you, but it works for me and my children.
Logically, if everything requires a cause then "God" requires a cause; else if "God" does not require a cause, then everything does not require a cause.
Moot point though, since not everything requires a cause. Which is good news for theists, since if it did then there would be no such thing as free will and so all our "sins" would be the responsibility of the so-called "uncaused cause."
"God is supposed to come first...A #1...in everything. [...] That's how it's SUPPOSED to work."
Actually, that's the precise opposite of true.
This honestly just sounds like a convenient excuse for child neglect.
"I didn't mean to let my children starve, Your Honor. I was too busy praying."
Heh. That's like telling my family, "Fuck you, Zeus is my main man! You're all just second fiddle to the Lord of Mount Olympus!
My family would look at me with all kinds of crazy if I said that.
Troy! My man.
Are you still trolling the internet? We've been here before dude. We both know that your feelings of inadaquacy and social ineptitude are holding you back from normal human interactions but attempting to gain some sort of validation from spamming random internet sites with gibberish that nobody with a functioning brain, not even you, can possibly take seriously is only avoiding the problem.
We've spoken before, have a shower, clean your teeth, put on some clean clothes and get out into society. Join a club or something, meet people. Remember, don't stare at others, especially if they are female. Most people find that creepy. Smile occasionally, let others do the talking, listen to them and try to visualise their point of view. Above all, keep trying. You can do it. You can change. You need to change. Let today be the first day of the new Troy Brooks.
She apologied for putting Flying Spaghetti Monster before her family....?
Oops. Sorry, PC crowd, but Flying Spaghetti Monster is supposed to come first...A #1...in everything. Ahead of yourself, ahead of your spouse, ahead of your kids...(oh noez, he said in front of your KIDS!!!)...yup. That's how it's SUPPOSED to work.
Putting Flying Spaghetti Monster second...even after your precious little munchkins...is a disaster waiting to happen.
'Oops. Sorry, PC crowd, but God is supposed to come first...A #1...in everything. Ahead of yourself, ahead of your spouse, ahead of your kids...(oh noez, he said in front of your KIDS!!!)...yup. That's how it's SUPPOSED to work.
Putting God second...even after your precious little munchkins...is a disaster waiting to happen. '
I think the courts would view that differently, fuckwit.
"Putting God second...even after your precious little munchkins...is a disaster waiting to happen."
Yeah, as the likes of you so adequately demonstrate.
"Kids, I know you haven't eaten in six days and the water, power and heat's been off for a month, but God comes first. Now go sit quietly so Mommy can pray for the salvation of all our wretched souls, which as you know I do non-stop."
Sigh.
Actually putting an imaginary beings perceived needs before those of your "little munchkins" goes by various names like "neglect", "child abuse", "criminal negligence" and "abrogating ones duty of care."
The man himself said something like "Suffer not the little children!". But Fundies turn it always to "Suffer little children".
And you do dare to claim, that you are serving a kind, compassionate and loving God?
You disgust me.
I guess this is because all presents and joy come from god. The rest of humanity is totally worthless, all you need is the sky daddy!
Thankfully somebody was able to break free of this weirdness.
so...I do want to say that Timber's comment is hugely insensetive and self-righteous, and does not strike me as a remotely christian thing to say.
That said, however, I would also like to point out two things: the first is that putting God first and taking decent care of your kids are not mutually exclusive. Kids do not have to be the center of your entire life to be well raised. In fact they're probably better off if they're not the center of your life: it will make them more independent and you less likely to get burnt out.
The second is that, while I definitely think Vyckie's previous life was seriously unhealthy, I don't think her problem was that she was putting God first; I think her problem was her abusive husband and her fundie church. Having multiple children and submitting to your husband do come up in the bible, but they are not a significant theme in the gospels. The former shows up mostly in the psalms and the histories, and seems to be primarily cultural (having lots of children is much more valuable in low tech cultures.) The latter is primarily discussed in the letters of Paul (which many Christians consider to carry less weight than other books of the bible, since Paul never knew Jesus while he was alive, and was primarily interested in evangelism, rather than doctrinal purity.) Homeschooling, and homebirthing (and home everything else-ing) are not biblically mandated (sure they existed, but only because the alternatives didn't,) and working yourself to death is seen as actively bad (as shown by the recognition of a need for a day of rest, or the story of Mary and Martha.)
Again, I'm definitely not saying that you should have to make everything about God and ignore your children until they attempt suicide. But I do think that Vyckie's problems were related more to abuse, and to fundamentalism specifically than Christianity generally.
Response from a Christian (me):
So if God told you in a dream to go kill your wife, kill your kids, and then go down to the local elementary school and start shooting until the SWAT teams riddle you with bullets, you would do so, because not doing so would be risking putting human lives before God? Even if that just might be Lucifer with a very careful God disguise on?
...riiiiiight.
See, when I hear the word "cultist", I usually think of something along the lines of "WE WEEL CAP-TYOOR IT FOR KAY-OSS", but then fstdt reminds me that cultists typically look perfectly normal to all external observation. They always give themselves away, however, when they open their mouths.
The irony: the Quiverfull movement is, in fact, supposedly about having a large family. Guess the usual conservative ethos regarding kids applies here, too: in the womb they're sacred, but once you've pumped 'em out, who cares?
Brb, gotta go take a massive god...
*sounds of flushing*
What were we saying about god being number one?
Just cause God said "Be fruitful and multiply" doesn't mean He said "AND NEVER STOP."
There aren't many people in the Bible with more than a few kids, you maniacs.
And what if she decides not to worship him?, didn't God give her that option?. Let's be consequent. Besides, the same God said too that, if you don't love your brothers and sisters, THAT YOU SEE, and that includes children, you can't love a God you can't see. Of course, she said, clearly, that she abandoned a movement that pushed her daughter to suicide. That's food for thought.
That's how it's supposed to work. God gave us free will and, if she decides to leave the movement after a trauma, it's the logical "GOd's will" so to say. Think about that next time you scold people. Maybe it was the way God had to show that you're not in the right track.
"Putting God second...even after your precious little munchkins...is a disaster waiting to happen. "
Certainly, no doubt a perfectly laudable sentiment for one whose brain's snippits of thought and whose nebulous intellect swirls airily round a dense gravitational clumping of dogmatic lore based on a non-existent fantasy figure. An almighty .... what? An almighy nothing. In your case Timber, the phrase, nothing is more important than ones kids, takes on a meaning different to its usual one.
You're obviously a deranged clod, unfit to be in charge of children, ever.
Except these people aren't leaving it in God's hands, they're plotting and planning and making sure that they have sex on exactly the right day. Because if you don't have a uterus that you could park a truck in, then you're just not worthy.
Since when is having your priorities straight PC? Oh, sorry, this is a fundie we're talking to. No wonder a couple of those fundies advocate beating their kids every time they move a muscle. That damn baby trying to crawl up the stairs was cutting into my worshipping God time! To hell with her motor skills, who needs to walk in heaven?
Of my siblings with kids, one's athiest, one's agnostic and one's moderate christian. All put their kids first, and all of their kids are healthy, doing well in school, seem to be happy most of the time, and are well-behaved most of the time.
All of the fundie's kids I've ever known (though I have to admit it's not many considering the vacuum they live in) have turned out either knocked up or on drugs or both. I'm tempted to start a betting line on which Duggar will be the first to get a DUI. You know one of those Stepford kids (and wife) are bound to blow a gasket sooner or later.
@Gloria
Putting kids first doesn't necessarily mean being in their face every minute of every day, that can screw up a kid just as badly as neglect can. It can mean simple things like buying the kids shoes before you buy yourself that designer purse, making sure they have a healthy lunch and clean clothes instead of sitting on the computer all day, and just seeing them as individuals with different needs and interests instead of little dolls to be played with when you feel like, and shoved in the closet when you don't.
So it's not a disaster by popping out a couple dozen kids that you can't support, but actually deciding to take care of them without getting on your knees every five minutes to talk to your imaginary friend is a potential disaster?
It amazes me how brainwashed these people are. Reminds me of a local woman who back in the 80's was praying for that little girl who fell down the well in Texas while her own toddler son was running down the street unsupervised.
Peter Griffin, to a bunch of drug addicts:
"And be sure to have as many kids as you can, because there will be a greater chance that one of them will become a rich celebrity, and then will be able to take care of you."
@ LDM
You're right, that putting your kids first doesn't necessarily mean "being in their face every minute of every day." However, it's also true that putting them second (which does not automatically mean you're putting yourself first) doesn't necessarily mean treating your cildren as "little dolls to be played with when you feel like, and shoved in the closet when you don't." There's a spectrum of possibilities here, and just because someone's priorities aren't perfect doesn't mean they're a complete monster. Some of the commentors seemed to be implying that making God a priority automatically meant completely ignoring your kids to spend all your time praying.
@ Gloria
My kids are real. That is a fact. They need my attention, my love, and my guidance. That is also a fact.
Among those who believe in god there seems to be a general assumption that he (it is almost always a "he") is omnipotent and omniscient. Such a being by definition does not need anything from mortal beings of limited ability and knowledge. It seems absurd to put consideration of a non-material, possibly non-existent being above consideration of very real children with very real needs.
Of course there are many other aspect of life that require our attention. A few of these are our spouses, work, friends, communities and countries. Many of us find the demands of this world to be very taxing. And the question remains; why should we be expected to put a non-material, possibly non-existent being that by definition does not need anything above the very real elements of our lives that do need us?
As I see it, the entire issue is a set up to manipulate the faithful. Every minute we spend attending to worldly considerations and not to god is a minute we are expected to feel guilty about wasting. The resulting negative feelings are supposed to make the faithful cling even closer to their god, begging that they be forgiven and not sent to hell.
Personally, I find it easier to dispense with the god and the guilt and focus on what is real in this world.
@ Dr. Shrinker
I'm not saying your kids don't need you love and attention. I'm certainly not saying they're imaginary ;) I'm glad you take good care of your kids, and I'm sorry you find religion to be all about guilt (I know it is for a lot of people, but it doesn't have to be.)
I'm not arguing that everyone should have to put God first, and I am not condemning this woman for trying to fix her life (which I agree had been royally screwed up by the quiverfull movement.) All I am saying is that I found the comments a few people made to be over the top. I know families for whom God does come first, and while they are not perfect, they are also not abusive and neglectful. Just because you believe in the importance of serving God (usually by helping other people) and being grateful for what you have doesn't mean you consider your kids to be worthless and irrelevant, or that you don't take the time to care for them. People can have more than one priority.
But isn't our loving Yahweh "perfect" as you Christians say? Then there'd be no need to put Him over your own kids. If He "loves" us as the Apologetic crazies tell me, then He wouldn't care about not being your #1 priority.
Dig a hole and take your evil cult there. Don't come back out for the next 30 years.
Fuck you and your fucking cult. This isn't the Middle Ages anymore (although you cuntrags would love it if it were). You don't have to make 10-15 children in order to make sure your genes get passed on, since you don't have children dying left and right thanks to modern medicine, which you retards apparently don't need because you think praying will heal everything. Just go make some remote village somewhere in the middle of nowhere and live out your bass ackwards lives and leave the rest of us modern human beings alone.
I don't know, part of me wants to read that as (very insensitive) sarcasm, but we have already seem that there are fundies that messed up... In either case, Timber is an asshole.
@the old firm:
"The man himself said something like "Suffer not the little children!". But Fundies turn it always to "Suffer little children"."
IIRC the sentence was "Suffer the little children", but in this context "suffer" means "tolerate, be patient with", not "torture the little shits!"
"Putting God second...even after your precious little munchkins...is a disaster waiting to happen. "
But will at least prevent you from hallucinating and following "God's" voice when it tells you to murder your children.
Dear Christians
If God comes before everything, then you can't argue that God comes before breathing, so please STOP BREATHING!!!
Sincerly,
Proud Rationalist
"Putting God second...is a disaster waiting to happen."
That's why I put him THIRD.
JK. I really think that the God of the Old Testament is different than the New Testament God that Christ spoke of. Really, Jesus was a soft-ish guy. Even though he said, "I come not to bring peace, but a sword," he probably just meant that his message may have came across as a shock to some. Also, the Apostles' teachings are not necessarily Christ's, and Jesus walking on water was a mistranslation.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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