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#1022489
LDM
We're not afraid to debate, it's just pointless to argue with a brick wall.
9/17/2009 7:25:06 PM
#1022510
Horsefeathers
"1 "a woman has right to her own body"
- my fist is part of my body, can I go around hitting anyone I want?"
No, as that would infringe on the rights of others to not be assaulted. You are, however, free to pummel yourself to a bloody pulp, should you so choose.
"2 "The constitution doesnt define when a fetus becomes a person"
- it doest say you are a person either and blacks were once defined as less than a full person & they had science to say so."
Anyone who needs the definition of "person" or tries to conflate the actual definition of such with a clump of cells smaller than the head of a pin really shouldn't be involved in such discussions.
"3"a man cant make that decision. he wouldnt understand"
- this from woman who have never been pregnant. so, if you've never been in a war, you cant be anti war?"
Meh. I'll agree with this one. Just because you cannot or have not experienced something doesn't mean you can't support it or criticize it. Whether or not the support or criticism is valid is another issue entirely.
"4"you're forcing your religion on woman"
- what religion, since when was atheist a religion."
Your religion, you moron. Specifically Christianity but I suppose you could put any of them in there for the most part.
"5"its a private decision"
- So is burying my mother in law in my backyard at night."
Which would also be against various public health laws.
What someone does with their own body is their own fucking business so long as they're not in some sort of unbalanced mental state.
"6"its freedom of choice"
- but deciding what school your kids go to isn't (oh thats right you killed your kids)."
Eh?
Deciding which school your child attends is, get this, freedom of choice you ignorant jackass.
Of your six "rebuttals" you have only one (number 3) that you have any possible defensible position on. The rest are either so fucking stupid as to not matter or they completely miss the point to begin with.
9/17/2009 7:40:41 PM
#1022538
Zoo
"- my fist is part of my body, can I go around hitting anyone I want? "
What will your fist hit? Something that's not part of you, but part of some other conscious being.
"- it doest say you are a person either and blacks were once defined as less than a full person & they had science to say so"
I think that's a silly argument, if it's even real, but your answer is stupid. The "science" they had was twisted to fit their purposes. Much like yours. . .
"- this from woman who have never been pregnant. so, if you've never been in a war, you cant be anti war?"
Why do you have to have been pregnant? Women typically have very strong feelings about what might happen in their own body one way or the other. And it's much more like depression than war; try to choose your analogies more carefully.
"- So is burying my mother in law in my backyard at night."
Except your MiL "was" a fully grown conscious being. A hundred cells are not.
"- but deciding what school your kids go to isn't (oh thats right you killed your kids)."
I don't know where you live but in the normal world people typically have a lot of choices about different schools, or even to not go to a formal school at all. Parenthetical statement is just a snipe.
Any time people claim the opposition doesn't want to debate it's because there are people like you who don't understand how a debate works, or analogy, or individual rights, or definitions or . . . . When you can discuss intelligently without personal attacks (even hypothetical ones) someone might be willing to give you a shot.
9/17/2009 8:03:18 PM
#1022544
Mudak
1 "a woman has right to her own body"
- my fist is part of my body, can I go around hitting anyone I want?
Feel free to swing your fist as wildly as you want. You've got that right, but it ends at my face. Otherwise, you can expect me to respond, And I do have the right to bear arms, too...
2 "The constitution doesnt define when a fetus becomes a person"
- it doest say you are a person either and blacks were once defined as less than a full person & they had science to say so.
What is this bullshit about becoming a person? The simple truth is that the constitution, in numerous places, refers to being "born." That's where all of our constitutional rights as citizens (including the 14th amendment) come from. And a bunch of cells is not the same as a fully matured human baby.
3"a man cant make that decision. he wouldnt understand"
- this from woman who have never been pregnant. so, if you've never been in a war, you cant be anti war?
If the woman has never been pregnant, then why would she want an abortion? It's a specious comparison to compare the ravages of war, which are quite well-documented and justifiably something many people would want to avoid, with anything to do with the development of a hunk of cells..
4"you're forcing your religion on woman"
- what religion, since when was atheist a religion.
Christianity is the religion being forced on the woman.
5"its a private decision"
- So is burying my mother in law in my backyard at night.
Assuming she's dead and assuming you know exactly how to bury a body in such a way that it won't contaminate the groundwater, be my guest. The women who have abortions generally don't perform them on themselves...
6"its freedom of choice"
- but deciding what school your kids go to isn't (oh thats right you killed your kids).
I've got no problem with you deciding to send your kids to another school other than the public school in your neighborhood. Just don't ask me to pay for it.
9/17/2009 8:07:02 PM
#1022547
timjamiller
LDM--I prefer Barney Frank's "arguing with a dining room table". Three words puts in more absurdity than two.
9/17/2009 8:08:24 PM
#1022551
KevO
You're absolutely right, atheist was never a religion.
9/17/2009 8:11:16 PM
#1022572
evilred
*facepalm*
9/17/2009 8:24:16 PM
#1022575
Giveitaday
Why are proabortionist afraid to debate?
Simple, they aren't. Just because you duck out debates doesn't mean everybody does.
They get very emotional and dont want to talk about it
Like who? Is it completely immpossible for you people to make an argument without nearly everything you say being an outright lie?
Your just forcing your belief on people
Trying to codify into law that groups A, B, C, D, E, & F cannot do something just because group Z doesn't like it is forcing your beliefs on others. Abortion may offend you as a christian, but not all christians oppose abortion and not all americans are christian either.
Is it because prolife people can easily should down everyone of their arguements like...
I'll assume you mean "shoot down" rather than "should down". And no you can't, at least not without lying and making false assertions or assumptions.
1 "a woman has right to her own body"
- my fist is part of my body, can I go around hitting anyone I want?
Bullshit argument your example involves injury to an independent party whereas abortion involves only one's self. Moreover assault is rcognized as a criminal act, abortion is perfectly legal.
2 "The constitution doesnt define when a fetus becomes a person"
- it doest say you are a person either and blacks were once defined as less than a full person & they had science to say so.
That's not even an argument against the pro-choice position. Nor is it a issue of what the constitution does or does not say, the law does not recognize a fetus as a human being and unless there is something in the constitution that explicitly forbids that then you don't have an argument at all. The body of US law exists independant of the constitution unless a part of it violates the constitution. If you wish to make it a constitutional issue then I would point you to the many places where the word "born" is used in the constitution.
3"a man cant make that decision. he wouldnt understand"
- this from woman who have never been pregnant. so, if you've never been in a war, you cant be anti war?
How do you know if a person you've never met has or has not been pregnant? Also, you can be anti war without having been in a war. expressing opposition to a position does not necessitate have been in that position. What you are asserting is the equivalent of saying "You can't oppose the death penalty becauses you've never been executed.".
4"you're forcing your religion on woman"
- what religion, since when was atheist a religion.
Not everyone who is pro life is religious, nor is there anyone who denies that. You are arguing against a position that no one holds. Have you run out of strawmen already? (Note: I took the posters response to say that the poster himself was an atheist. If that is not the case then my response would be far different.)
5"its a private decision"
- So is burying my mother in law in my backyard at night.
It is a private decision. Burying your mother in law however is not a private decision since it involves another person who might just get a little pissed off about such a thing. It's not a valid argument for the same reasons that #1 is an invalid argument.
6"its freedom of choice"
- but deciding what school your kids go to isn't
It is freedom of choice, wheather you like it or not. As for schools, last time I checked there were a great many options for schooling your child. There's public school, religious school, numerous private schools, boarding school, military school, and even homeschooling. You are either grossly misinformed, willfully ignorant of the facts, or just plain lying, which is it?
oh thats right you killed your kids
Being pro choice does not mean that a person has had, or has to have an abortion. People are pro-choice as a matter of principle, not circumstance.
9/17/2009 8:27:31 PM
#1022605
panz
Why do all these dumbshits never grasp the difference between "your" and "you're"? It's not that fucking hard people
9/17/2009 9:00:00 PM
#1022619
werewolf
This all you got? Your arguments are crappier than I thought.
9/17/2009 9:17:17 PM
#1022629
I'm calling Poe.
9/17/2009 9:30:48 PM
#1022644
Musicalbookworm
I'll make a deal with you. Develop an artificial womb that can support a pregnancy to its natural outcome. Then develop a procedure to *safely* and minimally invasively remove a fetus from a woman's body during the first and second trimesters of pregnancy. THEN you can ban abortion 'til your little heart's content. Then I will believe that pro-lifers first concern is the fetus. Until then, shut the fuck up and keep your personal beliefs out of my snatch!
9/17/2009 10:03:56 PM
#1022691
Slater
I just feel I have to make this clear for the commenters:
Anti-abortion is NOT the same as Christianity. They often overlap, but it's perfectly possible to be against abortion without being Christian.
I'm very pro-abortion and very atheist - this is just a fact that needed mentioning, because a lot of commenters here apparently believe there is always a correlation.
9/17/2009 11:18:34 PM
#1022692
GodotIsWaiting4U
1) The woman isn't hitting people with her body. The decision affects her own body.
2) Abortion isn't based on racism or the Constitution, and yes, the Constitution entitles us to various rights.
3) The difference is that you haven't been in a war but you CAN be; you chose not to. A man cannot choose to become pregnant.
4) Correct; atheism is not a religion. Few pro-lifers are atheist; the movement is extremely Christian in nature.
5) No, burying your mother-in-law affects your mother-in-law and whoever owns your backyard; and the stench will affect your neighbors.
6) It is freedom of choice.
9/17/2009 11:20:15 PM
#1022718
EvoPagan
my fist is part of my body, can I go around hitting anyone I want?
Well, let's see. When your fist gets held down at gunpoint and has someone's nasty cock shoved into it and gets raped repeatedly over a period of hours and beaten, and then when your fist turns up pregnant and has to face nine long months of getting bigger and bigger and bigger and lots of painful, scary health threats and then has to spend many hours in labor spewing out something that is ten times the size of itself with the accompaniment of blood and umbilical cord...yeah, then I'll support the right for your fist to do whatever the fuck it wants. Until then, shut the fuck up, stupid.
9/18/2009 12:03:16 AM
#1022734
Semi-Christian
1. No because other people's bodies are not your own. (point completely missed)
2. Even if that is true, the science was clearly faulty and influenced by outside sources. (non sequitur?)
3. Actually, you can be anti-war without being at war, but your judgement is significantly less important that those who actually do it. (reasonable argument with a small flaw)
4. I think they meant "belief", which everyone has. (non-argument)
5. Actually, that is trespassing and that is wrong simply because they are using YOUR land for something of THEIRS. (Point completely missed)
6. Huh, what do you mean, "deciding what school your kids go to isn't" [a free choice]....oh, right, different countries, different education setups. But you point is still invalid because that choice can be ignored if you pay, while you aren't about to allow people to bribe their way to an abortion. (reasonable point....if it made sense)
In summation....you make NO BLOODY SENSE.
9/18/2009 1:11:17 AM
#1022738
Nathan the Wise
Anyone, but anyone who uses the formulation "Why don't you ________? /Oh, that's right, you ________!" gets an automatic fail, IMO. It's so school playground.
9/18/2009 1:27:56 AM
#1022750
Sylvana
Generally pro-choice people dont debate with pro-lifer's because pro-lifers dont even understand what the principles of pro-choice are.
never the less:
1: your fist is part of you body, you can do whatever you want with it, including leavng a parasitic organism to feed off of it, or remove siad parasitic organism from your fist.
2: The constitution is not supposed to define when a fetus becomes a person. That is for scinetific consensus and evaluation. To date, science has decided that a fetus is not a person. hence this point is moot.
3: A man can have some say in the matter, that is fair enough. However, said man cannot force his desire or opinion on the woman who is pregnant. It is her body and her life, and thus at the end of the day her choice.
4: Earlier you mentioned "Your just forcing your belief on people". considering that the pro-choice position does not force anyhting on anyone, while the pro-life one does. I feel that the issue of force is sufficient enough, regardless of religion.
5: Buring your mother in law is a private decision. Provided you do not violate any health regulations, you should be able to do so. However, given that your wife would probably have a more direct ownership over the corpse than you, you might want to clear it with her first, given that she is next of kin and all that.
6: Freedom of choice is fairly universal. remove the option for people to go to a clinic for an abortion, and they will still choose to do it unsafely. Just like you can choose to live like a hermit. the choices one makes are not always the best, but there are always choices.
Pro-choice people dont kill thier children, when they have children they will love then far more than the pro-lifer who was focred to have a child thrust into thier life.
9/18/2009 1:51:20 AM
#1022757
Clown
First, who are those/is this proabortionist? Second, seeing your stupid arguments, I can see why it won't debate with you.
9/18/2009 1:58:44 AM
#1022802
Nowonmai
- my fist is part of my body, can I go around hitting anyone I want?
No, but you can punch yourself in the face or balls as often as you want.
- it doest say you are a person either and blacks were once defined as less than a full person & they had science to say so.
Embryos aren't people. Deal with it. Black people are people, or did that escape your notice?
- this from woman who have never been pregnant. so, if you've never been in a war, you cant be anti war?
I've never murdered someone, but I am against murder. (that's strike three)
- what religion, since when was atheist a religion.
If you start citing religious dogma as to why she can't seek a termination, it is you forcing your religion on her.
The rest of your argument is even stupider crap.
9/18/2009 3:15:22 AM
#1022813
szaleniec
"They get very emotional"
Considering that 99% of pro-life arguments (a representative number, not a hard statistic) feature an appeal to emotion at least somewhere, this person is projecting so hard they could beam an image onto the surface of the Moon.
9/18/2009 4:05:37 AM
#1022831
Mister Spak
It's a trick question. There is no such thing as a proabortionist.
While we're on the subject, why are anticoicists so stupid?
9/18/2009 5:06:26 AM
#1022851
Hirsute_Nailbomb
"Why are proabortionist afraid to debate?"
i stopped reading right there. i have never, ever, in my life, met anyone who is or claims to be "pro-abortion".
9/18/2009 5:47:05 AM
#1022855
Cassandra
> my fist is part of my body, can I go around hitting anyone I want?
So you're saying using fists is always wrong? You're going to annoy a lot of boxers and martial artists.
The point being, yes, something being "natural" doesn't always mean it's right. But neither is it always wrong.
> it doest say you are a person either and blacks were once defined as less than a full person & they had science to say so.
So basically it doesn't say who is a person, like the original poster said.
> this from woman who have never been pregnant.
I kind of agree with this one. Cluelessness doesn't ask for any specific sex. I'd still allege that anyone who's clueless about the issues should shut up.
> what religion, since when was atheist a religion.
Using smaller words so you can comprehend this seemingly simple idea: Pro-lifers are forcing their religion on others. Not the atheists. There? Does that argument make more sense to you that way?
> So is burying my mother in law in my backyard at night.
Yeah, at least here you can get a permit for burying people on your private land. And, actually, I think the major churches are required to reserve portions of the graveyards for non-denominational graves here. What would we do if religion prohibited us from doing what is good and proper?
> but deciding what school your kids go to isn't
Again, it's about informed choices. Homeschooling tends to produce ill-informed kids. Sure, if that's your goal, do it.
> (oh thats right you killed your kids).
There's often a fine line between a rhetorical point and libel.
9/18/2009 5:52:40 AM
#1022885
aaa
This is retarded.
9/18/2009 6:45:54 AM
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