Quote# 25581

Many people critisize the catholic church because it would hand heretics over to the authorites for their false teachings. from there the authorities would often execute heretics by burning at the stake.

I believe that these actions, at the time, were justified because heresy is the cause for the damnation of souls and we execute people for murdering the body but heretics murder thousands of souls with their false teachings. Think about it, which is worse, for one person to die or for thousands to be led astray into hell because of false teachers and descievers.

6glargento, Catholic Answers 34 Comments [5/23/2007 12:00:00 AM]
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Brain_In_A_Jar

Many people critisize the catholic church because it would hand heretics over to the authorites for their false teachings. from there the authorities would often execute heretics by burning at the stake.

Hand them over? The catholic church was the authority. Are you trying to distance them from actually carrying out the brutal executions or something? It's not as if they'd be off the hook for condemning someone to burn but not actually kindling the fire anyway.

I believe that these actions, at the time, were justified because heresy is the cause for the damnation of souls and we execute people for murdering the body but heretics murder thousands of souls with their false teachings. Think about it, which is worse, for one person to die or for thousands to be led astray into hell because of false teachers and descievers.

An excellent summary of medieval philosophy. Would you care to join us in the 21st century, now?

5/23/2007 1:43:05 PM

Matilde

You have still to clarify two points:
a)why, suddenly, people have stopped killing souls now.
b)What does it mean to kill souls, because, to my knowledge, they're still carrying on with their everyday life. And, most important, the heretics live their lives and their potential converts can say NO.
It would be also good to explain to us quod est veritas, because many people have killed, as the guys in the forum pointed, Christians in different times and places, for the same charges.

5/23/2007 1:53:31 PM

NonProphet

Marching Proudly Into The 12th Century.

Y6glargento should be informed that many of the people killed for heresy were not, in fact, heretics. Many of them were simply accused and preemptively convicted as such, without evidence for the allegations.

Joan d'Arc ring a bell?

5/23/2007 2:18:07 PM

Aethernaut

I can't say this emphatically enough, FUCK YOU!

5/23/2007 2:37:03 PM

Bunyipgirl

They had their own courts and did their own burning.

5/23/2007 2:48:15 PM

MK

Hand them over? The catholic church was the authority. Are you trying to distance them from actually carrying out the brutal executions or something? It's not as if they'd be off the hook for condemning someone to burn but not actually kindling the fire anyway.


Technically, largento is correct. The Catholic Church never actually executed anyone, even heretics. The Church was always careful to never have one of its members actually kill, torture, or otherwise commit any act of violence or atrocity on any person. If they needed this done, of course, they forced local authorities (a local baron or count for example) to provide soldiers or other non-clergy men to do the dirty work. Technically the Church clergy could truthfully state that they never physically harmed or killed anyone.


5/23/2007 3:03:45 PM

Doctor Whom

To you, that says a lot about the evils of heresy. To me, it says a lot about the soundness and fairness of the Christian plan for salvation. Thanks for reminding me of one of the reasons for my deconversion.

5/23/2007 3:07:57 PM

Dr. Fishcake

\"false teachers and descievers.(sic(k))\"

Says a Catholic fundie. Don't you just love the irony?

5/23/2007 3:14:28 PM

Papabear

\"Think about it, which is worse, for one person to die or for thousands to be led astray into hell because of false teachers and descievers.\"

But neither you nor anyone else can prove that they were \"false teachers and decievers\" or that they were leading anyone \"astray,\" so, the Church was simply having people killed for disagreeing with them.

5/23/2007 3:14:34 PM

Jezebel's Evil Sister

Inquisition apologist?

5/23/2007 3:30:45 PM

MK

Yeah, I think we need a new \"Inquisition Apologist\" award to go alongside the Holocaust Apologist awards.

5/23/2007 3:38:13 PM

AWP

Yes we need a Inquisition Apologist Award for this one.

5/23/2007 3:43:46 PM

anti-nonsense

Inquisition Apologist award thirded.

5/23/2007 3:49:40 PM

D Laurier

Actualy a heretic does not murder anything.
A heretic asks questions and expresses doubts and dissbelief.
I know of no \"false teachings\" associated with heretics, only inconvenint facts that authoritys eventualy had to admit to.

5/23/2007 4:12:51 PM

agentCDE

Inquisition Apologist nthed.

5/23/2007 4:32:34 PM

Berny

Since you can no more prove the existence of souls than you can the existence of God, your argument is baseless.
The Catholic Church's history is replete with the persecution of individuals merely for the crime of expressing an idea contrary to the Church's position.

5/23/2007 4:55:56 PM

DFox

\"Think about it, which is worse, for one person to die or for thousands to be led astray into hell because of false teachers and descievers.\"

Hmmm, well since hell doesn't exist and there's no such thing as a soul, I'm gonna have to go with it being worse to have 1 person die. Next!

5/23/2007 4:58:08 PM

Encolpius

Inquisition Apologist nthed.

5/23/2007 5:02:49 PM

MilkyWay

Another vote for Inquisition Apologist Award.

5/23/2007 5:04:17 PM

flipper

\"Murdering in the name of God, for fun and profit 101\". Johann Huss, Knights Templars, German Jews, Spanish Jews and Moors, Alfred Godwineson. Cesare Borgia's victims, the Cathars, Eastern Orthodox Christians and Muslims(the Crusades), American Indians, and millions of Catholics and non-Catholic Christians(the Thirty Years war) were some(not all) of the victims of Catholic greed, jealousy, and playing in politics. I will defend them against fundies who claim that they are not Christians, but I will not defend their reign of \"Holy Terror\" in the \"Dark Ages\" and \"Age of Exploration\".

5/23/2007 6:26:01 PM

Old Viking

We didn't say turning heretics over to civil authorities for burning was bad. We said it was in poor taste.

5/23/2007 8:59:45 PM

Sophie

Yay! A Catholic Fundie!

It's like the Catholic version of a Protestant Fundie Holocaust apologiser (because really, the Catholics can't be Holocaust apologisers, as they were killed during it aswell).

I wonder if this person has even read about some of the tortures inflicted on 'heretics' during the Inquisition, hmm?

5/23/2007 10:12:47 PM

Trovore

Think about it, which is worse, for one person to die or for thousands to be led astray into hell because of false teachers and descievers.\"

For one person to die because who the fuck are you to judge who lives and who dies? And because ALL deaths are meaningless.

5/23/2007 10:49:05 PM

tracer

Sophie

the Catholics can't be Holocaust apologisers, as they were killed during it aswell

Really? Then why was Hitler still considered a Catholic in good standing at the end of World War II?

5/23/2007 11:35:12 PM

Beccs

Then people who feel the need to push their beliefs should be burned and tortured slowly to death for the sake of the many thousands they annoy every year.

5/24/2007 1:49:22 AM

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