Quote# 20773

[A genuine fear of God]

For many years, I've been tip-toeing through life, afraid that if I make the wrong move, God will punish me horribly. Whether or not that is theologically accurate, I do not know. But it's like everytime I do something that I think might be bad in some way, no matter how small it is, I start thinking "Please God, don't hurt me. Just don't hurt me!" It's just gotten worse in the last year or so, and I don't want to live my life in utter misery and constant fear of God spiritually hitting me over the head. Any advice?

Blue Hobgoblin, Christian Teen Forum 63 Comments [2/16/2007 12:00:00 AM]
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Mike

Yes. stop believing that God will hurt you. God never will. Ever. So DTFU, and get back to work.

2/16/2007 7:48:47 PM

Brain_In_A_Jar

Get therapy for paranoia and religious indoctrination.

2/17/2007 6:10:57 PM

Matilde

Yes, start going to a BDSM brothel or to a psychitrists. OR BOTH. You have no idea of theology.

2/17/2007 6:13:30 PM

Papabear

\"For many years, I've been tip-toeing through life, afraid that if I make the wrong move, God will punish me horribly. Whether or not that is theologically accurate, I do not know.\"

So, you adhere to a religion, but don't know whether or not the deity of that religion will kick your ass for your actions?


\"But it's like everytime I do something that I think might be bad in some way, no matter how small it is, I start thinking \"Please God, don't hurt me. Just don't hurt me!\"

If you're that scared, why don't you just not do those \"bad\" things? Better yet, why don't you escape that cult and get some professional psychiatric treatment?


\"It's just gotten worse in the last year or so, and I don't want to live my life in utter misery and constant fear of God spiritually hitting me over the head. Any advice?\"

Yeah, ditch that ridiculous religion and rely instead on observable facts, careful examination of suspect contentions and your own intellect.

2/17/2007 6:15:31 PM

cheapthrills

\"Any advice?\"
Therapy and Alprozolam.

2/17/2007 6:16:57 PM

Madame Scarlet

Believe in the FSM instead. He wants you to dress like a pirate! Isn't that fun?

2/17/2007 6:18:42 PM

Osiris

Yeah. Become an hero.

2/17/2007 6:20:46 PM

MK

I know this has shown up before... and I think BH could use it right now.
-----------------

This morning there was a knock at my door. When I answered the door I found a well-groomed, nicely dressed couple. The man spoke first:

\"Hi! I'm John, and this is Mary.\"

Mary: \"Hi! We're here to invite you to come kiss Hank's ass with us.\"

Me: \"Pardon me?! What are you talking about? Who's Hank, and why would I want to kiss his ass?\"

John: \"If you kiss Hank's ass, he'll give you a million dollars; and if you don't, he'll kick the shit out of you.\"

Me: \"What? Is this some sort of bizarre mob shakedown?\"

John: \"Hank is a billionaire philanthropist. Hank built this town. Hank owns this town. He can do whatever he wants, and what he wants is to give you a million dollars, but he can't until you kiss his ass.\"

Me: \" That doesn't make any sense. Why ...\"

Mary: \" Who are you to question Hank's gift? Don't you want a million dollars? Isn't it worth a little kiss on the ass?\"

Me: \"Well maybe, if it's legit, but ... \"

John: \"Then come kiss Hank's ass with us.\"

Me: \"Do you kiss Hank's ass often?\"

Mary: \"Oh, yes, all the time ...\"

Me: \"And has he given you a million dollars?\"

John: \"Well no, you don't actually get the money until you leave town.\"

Me: \"So why don't you just leave town now?\"

Mary: \"You can't leave until Hank tells you to, or you don't get the money ... and, he kicks the shit out of you.\"

Me: \"Do you know anyone who kissed Hank's ass, left town, and got the million dollars?\"

John: \"My mother kissed Hank's ass for years. She left town last year, and I'm sure she got the money.\"

Me: \"Haven't you talked to her since then?\"

John: \"Of course not. Hank doesn't allow it.\"

Me: \"So what makes you think he'll actually give you the money if you've never talked to anyone who got the money?\"

Mary: \" Well, he gives you a little bit before you leave. Maybe you'll get a raise, maybe you'll win a small lotto, maybe you'll just find a twenty dollar bill on the street.\"

Me: \"What's that got to do with Hank?\"

John: \"Hank has certain 'connections'.\"

Me: \"I'm sorry, but this sounds like some sort of bizarre con game.\"

John: \"But it's a million dollars, can you really take the chance? And remember, if you don't kiss Hank's ass, he'll kick the shit out of you.\"

Me: \"Maybe if I could see Hank, talk to him, get the details straight from him ...\"

Mary: \"No one sees Hank, no one talks to Hank.\"

Me: \"Then how do you kiss his ass?\"

John: \"Sometimes we just blow him a kiss, and think of his ass. Other times we kiss Karl's ass, and he passes it on.\"

Me: \"Who's Karl?\"

Mary: \"A friend of ours. He's the one who taught us all about kissing Hank's ass. All we had to do was take him out to dinner a few times.\"

Me: \"And you just took his word for it when he said there was a Hank, that Hank wanted you to kiss his ass, and that Hank would reward you?\"

John: \"Oh no! Karl's got a letter Hank sent him years ago explaining the whole thing. Here's a copy, see for yourself.\"

John handed me a photocopy of a handwritten memo on 'From the Desk of Karl' letterhead. There were eleven items listed:

1. Kiss Hank's ass and he'll give you a million dollars when you leave town.

2. Use alcohol in moderation.

3. Kick the shit out of people who aren't like you.

4. Eat right.

5. Hank dictated this list himself.

6. The moon is made of green cheese.

7. Everything Hank says is right.

8. Wash your hands after going to the bathroom.

9. Don't drink.

10. Eat your wieners on buns, no condiments.

11. Kiss Hank's ass or he'll kick the shit out of you.

Me: \"This would appear to be written on Karl's letterhead.\"

Mary: \"Hank didn't have any paper.\"

Me: \"I have a hunch that if we checked, we'd find this in Karl's handwriting.\"

John: \"Of course, Hank dictated it.\"

Me: \"I thought you said no one gets to see Hank?\"

Mary: \"Not now, but years ago he would talk to some people.\"

Me: \"I thought you said he was a philanthropist. What sort of philanthropist kicks the shit out of people just because they're different?\"

Mary: \"It's what Hank wants, and Hank's always right.\"

Me: \"How do you figure that?\"

Mary: \"Item 7 says 'Everything Hank says is right.' That's good enough for me!\"

Me: \"Maybe your friend Karl just made the whole thing up.\"

John: \"No way! Item 5 says: 'Hank dictated this list himself.' Besides, item 2 says 'Use alcohol in moderation.' Item 4 says: 'Eat right', and item 8 says: 'Wash your hands after going to the bathroom'. Everyone knows those things are right so the rest must be true, too.'

Me: \"But 9 says: 'Don't drink', which doesn't quite go with item 2; and 6 says: 'The moon is made of green cheese', which is just plain wrong.\"

John: \"There's no contradiction between 9 and 2, 9 just clarifies 2. As far as 6 goes, you've never been to the moon, so you can't say for sure.\"

Me: \"Scientists have pretty firmly established that the moon is made of rock.\"

Mary: \"But they don't know if the rock came from the Earth, or from out of space, so it could just as easily be green cheese.\"

Me: \"I'm not really an expert, but I think the theory that the Moon came from the Earth has been discounted. Besides, not knowing where the rock came from doesn't make it cheese.\"

John: \"Aha! You just admitted that scientists make mistakes, but we know Hank is always right!\"

Me: \"We do?\"

Mary: \"Of course we do, item 5 says so.\"

Me: \"You're saying Hank's always right because the list says so, the list is right because Hank dictated it, and we know that Hank dictated it because the list says so. That's circular logic, no different than saying 'Hank's right because he says he's right.\"

John: \"Now you're getting it! It's so rewarding seeing someone come around to Hank's way of thinking.\"

Me: \"But ... oh, never mind. What's the deal with wieners?\"

Mary blushes. John says: \"Wieners, in buns, no condiments. It's Hank's way. Anything else is wrong.\"

Me: \"What if I don't have a bun?\"

John: \"No bun, no wiener. A wiener without a bun is wrong.\"

Me: \"No relish? No mustard?\"

Mary looks positively stricken. John shouts: \"There's no need for such language! Condiments of any kind are wrong!\"

Me: \"So a big pile of sauerkraut with some wieners chopped up in it would be out of the question?\"

Mary sticks her fingers in her ears. \"I am not listening to this. La la la, la la, la la la.\"

John: \"That's disgusting. Only some sort of evil deviant would eat that ...\"

Me: \"It's good! I eat it all the time.\"

Mary faints. John catches her: \"Well, if I'd known you where one of those I wouldn't have wasted my time! When Hank kicks the shit out of you I'll be there, counting my money and laughing. I'll kiss Hank's ass for you, you bunless cut-wienered kraut-eater!\"

With this, John dragged Mary to their waiting car, and sped off.

2/17/2007 6:21:05 PM

Jezebel's Evil Sister

Just keep repeating, \"God loves me\" until you really believe it. You've already demonstrated a talent for self-delusion.

2/17/2007 6:32:38 PM

Burning Stake

That happened to me when I was still religious. It turns out I had Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder, which can be very serious in some people. Me, my worst point came several years ago when I wanted to kill myself. I didn't, not because of fear of God but because I did not want to put my family through suffering. And I still had the rest of my life in front of me to live, if I wanted to take the right action. I finally \"came-out\" to my parents, started seeing a therapist and am now on medication (not something I'm proud of, but at least I'm not constantly obsessing over the tiniest things.) If that is what this person has, I seriously feel for this person and deeply hope they get help.

And even if it is just Christian paranoia, it's still very sad.

ETA: [Personal Story Alert!]Thank you every one for your support-Shell, wraith216, Ereshkigal, Adrian, David D. G. While I'd rather not be on medication, it's best for the time being. My obessions are/were primarily based on perfectionism or touching-making sure I closed the door the right way every day, or saying the Lord's Prayer perfectly-even though God would undertand if I didn't say it right, how much more would it mean to Him if I still said it right? So I would spend almost an hour sying the Lord's Prayer over and over again, trying to say it with the right thoughts and meaning appropriate for God. While religion was not my only obsession, it certainly did not help any. (It was also not the only reason I left Christianity-I left after years of thinking and reading about it.) Finally I reached a point where I wanted to either die or change, and I chose change. Thank you, once again, for your support (and thank you board moderators for letting me talk about it-I'll get back to the comment at hand!)[/Personal Story Alert!]

At least some people on the board were telling him \"It's okay, God made us imperfect.\" What about imperfect religion? *Sigh*

2/17/2007 6:40:08 PM

JohnRaptor

A perfect example of how effective religion can be at controlling people through fear.

2/17/2007 6:47:53 PM

Øyvind

And I'm terrified of the Death Star and the Borg, which are equally well-proven.

2/17/2007 6:49:48 PM

g-21-lto

:-(

A psychologist can probably help. You don't have to live with this misery.

2/17/2007 6:59:07 PM

g-21-lto

ETA: aw, man, nobody on that forum seems to realize just how big a problem this could be. Poor kid :-(

2/17/2007 7:02:00 PM

Shell

Burning Stake there's not one thing wrong with taking medication for OCD. Don't buy the stigmatizing bullshit! Feel good about feeling good and live that happy life.

I feel sorry for this kid too, and s/he is probably only going to get crap answers about not praying hard enough from that crowd.

2/17/2007 7:28:59 PM

CousinTed

Therapy. I'm not making fun of you here, I seriously think you'd benefit from therapy.

2/17/2007 7:49:10 PM

Øyvind

The problem is that psychiatry is, as was said, so deep in stigma that it's a joke. Going to a therapist should be no more frowned upon than going to a doctor.

2/17/2007 7:56:27 PM

Star Cluster

Yes. Get thee away from religion! Seriously. Religion is insidious in how it affects the mind. And that is not without design by those in charge of said relgion. As others have pointed out, it is a form of mind control and the quicker you get away from it, the quicker you can start to heal. Also, as others have suggested, seeing a therapist is probably in your best interest as well.

2/17/2007 8:23:54 PM

Old Viking

Another entry in the \"Joys of Religion\" category.

2/17/2007 8:23:59 PM

Phantasmagoria

Does anyone else think this is a troll? I mean, 99% of the users on these christian forums talk about god punishing non-christians. Not the other way around.

2/17/2007 8:29:20 PM

JD

... Wow. feeling the love are ya Blue. Try to remember its all just in your head (including the god part), and remember how horrible this makes you feel when some jackass in priest robes or a suit starts ordering you to hammer such horror-stories into your innocent children's minds until they break and start believing...

2/17/2007 8:32:03 PM

wraith216

Amen Burning Stake, I remember when I lived like this guy for about 18 years of my life.

(Personal Story Alert!)

That I chalk up to having been raised in a devoutly Catholic family. I was only able to escape my delusions because I had an uncle that opened my eyes to the world of science, reason and discovery (all things any religion/cult HATES).

But for all those years the dialouge that went on in my head could only now be replicated accurately by saying this phrase over and over in a \"Rainman\" style voice:

\"Oh God forgive me, please forgive me! I'm sooo evil and wicked and sinful pleeeaase forgive me!\"
(Now to all those wondering, yes that's what I thought for all those years straining between my love of science and belief in Gawd)

One day I snapped and asked myself \"Self, what did you do wrong?\". After close to three years of contemplation and exploration I left the Catholic church, Christianity, as well as any delusion of an all powerfull sky fairy and I have never found a peace more lasting or satisfying.

(Personal Story End)

Now I say to all fundies/people like I was once these words written by John Brill for the Wobblies (in the tune of \"What a Friend We Have In Jesus\")

Are you poor, forlorn and hungry?
Are there lots of things you lack?
Is your life made up of misery?
Then dump the bosses off your back.
Are your clothes all patched and tattered?
Are you living in a shack ?
Would you have your troubles scattered?
Then dump the bosses off your back.

Are you almost split asunder?
Loaded like a long-eared jack?
Boob - why don't you buck like thunder,
And dump the bosses off your back?
All the agonies you suffer
You can end with one good whack;
Stiffen up, you orn'ry duffer
And dump the bosses off your back.

2/17/2007 9:06:29 PM

Ereshkigal

I know what you mean, Burning Stake. I also have OCD and starting in middle school I began to have ideas that I had inadvertantly sold my soul to the Devil or that I was going to Hell. Eventually I realized that I could no longer be religious in any way because it triggered my anxieties so strongly. Fortunately my family isn't very religious so I wasn't as indoctrinated as I might have been. I am on medication now and am doing much better. Hopefully Hobgoblin will also get psychiatric help and not think of this as a solely spiritual problem.

2/17/2007 9:17:57 PM

Aethernaut

Now, that's just sad.

2/17/2007 9:33:36 PM

flipper

Go out and get dead drunk and get laid! A night of debauchery and meaningless sex will get your mind off of this glumness for a while, and at least give you a reason for feeling guilty! And (surprise, surprise) you probably won't die, get beat up, or even suffer much worse than a hangover (if you use a condom)! You may not realize it, but you are actually showing a lack of faith in your God. Forget the perverse fundie depiction of an unforgiving ogre and remember that forgiveness is supposed to be his stock in trade. But you gotta learn to forgive yourself, first. I think that is the main evil of fundies, that they shape their God to fit their own prejudices and hatreds.

2/17/2007 9:33:46 PM

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