[Say, this wouldn't by any chance be the same "sick twisted warmongering Jewish 'god'" that Jesus prayed to and claimed was his father, would it?]
No, you got the wrong deity. Jesus Christ was the greatest opponent of the evil Jewish "god."
76 comments
So now there are 2 gods they admit to. And where in your Wholly Babble does this piece of enlightment come from? Book, chapter(s), and verse(s), please. I gotta read this for myself.
Wow. What's with all the denying that Jesus was Jewish all of a sudden? We've got two comments close to each other that claim that.
The Mel Gibson effect? Apparently Anti-Semitism is cool again.
I'm becoming more and more convinced that many of these so-called "Christian fundamentalists" are, in fact, nothing of the sort.
What we are seeing here is a completely distinct belief system that borrows familiar labels and memes from Christianity but actually espouses radically different values and tenets.
Based on what I know of the old Testament, I'm gonna have to agree with the 'God is Evil' thing. But now you're saying that Jesus was his father's worst enemy, despite almost constantly praying to him.
Then again, I read somewhere that when Jesus was a teenager he killed one of his classmates. Then he had to resurrect himm again.
The Jewish "god" is Satan, and the Jews are his children.
They answered, and said to him: Abraham is our father. Jesus saith to them: If you be the children of Abraham, do the works of Abraham. But now you seek to kill me, a man who have spoken the truth to you, which I have heard of God. This Abraham did not.
You do the works of your father. They said therefore to him: We are not born of fornication: we have one Father, even God. Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me. For from God I proceeded, and came; for I came not of myself, but he sent me: Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
(Gospel According to Saint John viii. 39-44)
Far more enlightning than anything you have contributed so far. BTW, which are you calling Satanic imposters, modern Jews or Israel of the Bible. I assume you are referring to Modern Jews, but it isn't clear the way you worded it.
The way I worded it and basic common sense considering the context make it quite. The people who call themselves "Jews" today are not those of the Bible.
I know thy tribulation and thy poverty, but thou art rich: and thou art blasphemed by them that say they are Jews and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
Behold, I will bring of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie. Behold, I will make them to come and adore before thy feet. And they shall know that I have loved thee.
(The Apocalypse Of Saint John ii., iii. 9)
At the time Jesus preached, his Father and the Jewish God (AKA Yahweh) we're understood to be one and the same.
I don't know who this "evil Jewish God" is you keep ranting on about, but it makes no biblical sense.
If you're arguing that the people who live in Israel today, and call themselves Israelis, aren't the biblical Israelis, we might be on to something, since it's pretty much impossible to track down the original Twelve Tribes.
"Wow, I can see people here cannot do anything but call people they disagree with "fundies." How enlightening.... "
We can do a lot more than that, but given the current audience, it would be casting pearls before fundies.
Defensor Fidei:
Jews today still read the Torah. It's still their most important document. Jews today still worship the god of the Torah (Yahweh). Yes, they have other important documents, but their core belief is in the Torah and the god of Genesis and Exodus. Is this not the same god that was supposedly Jesus' father?
"Jews today still read the Torah. It's still their most important document. Jews today still worship the god of the Torah (Yahweh). Yes, they have other important documents, but their core belief is in the Torah and the god of Genesis and Exodus. Is this not the same god that was supposedly Jesus' father?"
The Talmud is the central scriptures of the racist Jewish religion and the Jew is his own god. Yahweh is not whom the Talmudic Jews worship.
Defensor Fidei:
You're making a lot of claims, but not providing any evidence or reason to back them up, so why should I believe you? Do you have any evidnce that jews worship themselves? Or that they worship Satan? Do you have any evidence that they value the talmud more than the torah?
Ask a jew. Asked him who he worships, and he will say that he worships the god of Abraham. Ask him what document is most important to his religion and he will say it's the torah. How can you say that a person who worships the same god as christians and reads the same torah as christians is not worshiping the god of Jesus?
You, of course, Defensor, understand that the concept of "Satan" does not exist in the "Torah", and the only reference to anything approaching that is in the book of Job? Job, by the way, is not part of the Torah.
Who speaks Hebrew, if not Jews?
Do you, sir?
You do understand that the Old Testament, as currently constituted, was written down and codified by a Jewish council approximately 2700 years ago, right?
You understand the origin of the New Testament, right?
If you do understand, the factual history of your bible, then you are a very intellectually dishonest person.
If you don't, then read some more history from accredited sources, with actual research to back up hypotheses.
Using a rational, reasonal voice to expound bullshit, doesn't remove the smell.
Jews may use lies ("subterfuges") to circumvent a Gentile.
-Baba Kamma 113a.
“To communicate anything to a goy about our religious relations would be equal to the killing of all Jews, for if the goyim knew what we teach about them they would kill us openly.”
-Libbre David 37.
“Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew like a monkey to a human.”
-Schene luchoth haberith, p. 250 b
“The Jews are human beings, but the nations of the world are not human beings but beasts.”
-Saba Mecia, 114, 6.
“Jehovah created the non-Jew in human form so that the Jew would not have to be served by beasts. The non-Jew is consequently an animal in human form, and condemned to serve the Jew day and night.”
-Midrasch Talpioth, p. 225-L.
Nice try, ass-wipe.
Try to debate using factual texts and actual, non-hallucinatory logic.
If you want an actual, factual, logical debate, stop listening to those voices in your head and go inside on the forums, if you have the intellectual stones for it.
Otherwise, shove your head back up your ass and breathe deep.
If you try to quote the Talmud, try to at least get the spelling correctly. Your translation is faulty, or entirely made up.
I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with those quotes, Defensor Fidei. Perhaps that jews think they are better than non-jews? That they think non-jews are like beasts? So what? I've heard the same think from christians, muslims, and atheists.
The Torah is the most important scripture for jews today, just as it was for ancient jews (and part of the christian bible). Ancient jews, modern jews and christians all read genesis, exodus, etc., and all worship Yahweh, the god of Adam, Abraham and Moses, the god who was supposedly Jesus' father. So how is it that modern jews are worshiping Satan, unless ancient jews and christians are also worshiping Satan?
"Nice try, ass-wipe."
I cited from the Talmud and other Jewish texts. There were no spelling or translation errors, unless you can prove otherwise. "Anti-fundies" aren't much for backing up their claims though they seem to love name-calling and vulgarisms...
"I'm not sure what point you are trying to make with those quotes, Defensor Fidei. Perhaps that jews think they are better than non-jews? That they think non-jews are like beasts? So what? I've heard the same think from christians, muslims, and atheists."
The Jews believe they are better than non Jews not because of religion but because of their race. This is racial supremacism.
"So how is it that modern jews are worshiping Satan, unless ancient jews and christians are also worshiping Satan?"
The Talmud and teachings of the rabbis take precedence over the Torah. Modern-day Judaism is not the religion of the Old Testament.
"The Jews believe they are better than non Jews not because of religion but because of their race. This is racial supremacism."
I've heard the same things from christian racists. That doesn't mean those christians worship the devil. Much less does it mean that ALL christians worship the devil.
"The Talmud and teachings of the rabbis take precedence over the Torah."
Says who? Have you asked any jews what document take precedence in their religion?
And even if the Talmud does take precedence over the Torah for some jews, how does that mean they worship Satan? As long as they still believe in the Torah, they're still worshiping the god of the Torah.
For christians, the gospels take precidence over the Torah, but that doesn't mean they aren't still worshiping Yahweh. Much less does it mean that they are worshipping Satan. How are jews any different?
Give me the source of your translations.
Which of the two recognized Talmudic collections are you quoting?
Your spellings are incorrect for the books quoted, and the codification is also incorrect.
The Talmud are books of laws and their interpretations.
They are biblical, in that they simply codify and organize the laws outlined in the Torah.
They do not refer to "gentiles", rather to heathens, or "non-believers".
I have also read the same "nazi" translations as you, and you are greatly misinformed as to the nature of the Talmud.
If you would like to debate this in detail, please do so, by clicking on "FSTDT boards", above, login, and start a thread under the appropriate tab.
Otherwise, Mr. Troll, I will cease to debate your ludicrous, white supremicist doctrines here.
I have saved you the trouble of starting a thread. Look inside the boards, and you will find your "name".
Do carry on with your mud pies.
"I've heard the same things from christian racists. That doesn't mean those christians worship the devil. Much less does it mean that ALL christians worship the devil."
Christians are not a race...
"Says who? Have you asked any jews what document take precedence in their religion?"
The Talmud itself demands this. Rabbis even defeat their "god" himself in debates in the Talmud.
"And even if the Talmud does take precedence over the Torah for some jews, how does that mean they worship Satan? As long as they still believe in the Torah, they're still worshiping the god of the Torah."
Jesus Christ told them otherwise...
"We have to recognize that Jewish blood and the blood of a goy are not the same thing."
--Rabbi Yitzak Ginsburg
"Hey, asswipe, come get some."
Is that anyway to get people to join your forum?
By the way, Hebrew spelling does not use the Latin alphabet...
You are correct, asswipe, but did not answer 1 of my questions. Do you read/write/speak Hebrew? The forum is open, and I will await your responses there.
I will continue to refer to you as "asswipe" for as long as you continue to spew lies and misrepresentations.
Until then,
do carry on with your mud pies.
"Christians are not a race..."
And that makes a difference how? You are claiming that jews are racist. I'm telling you that many christians are racist.
"The Talmud itself demands this."
So? Many documents (like the new testament) claim to take precidence over the Torah, which itself claims precidence over other religious systems. The question is how much precidence an individule gives to these documents. So I ask again, have you talk to any jews and asked them what document is most important to their religion?
"Jesus Christ told them otherwise..."
Where?
And even if he did, simple logic tells us otherwise. Jews believe in the Torah, and the god of the Torah (Yahweh, the god of Adam and Abraham and Moses). Christians believe in the Torah, and the god of the Torah (Yahweh, the god of Adam and Abraham and Moses). They have different aditional document and beliefs, sure, but their beliefs are both based on the same books of the Torah, which tells them what god to worship (Yahweh), therefor they believe in the same god.
"Wow, ad hominem and again with the labels. Are these characteristics of "anti-fundie" debate?
No, its anti fundie comedy. There is no intelligent debate here because
you are incapable of engaging in intelligent debate. You wouldn't recognise intelligent debate
if it hit you in the head with a brick.
Its a characteristic of fundies.
And that makes a difference how? You are claiming that jews are racist. I'm telling you that many christians are racist.
That's a non sequitur. Christians are not a race; there is no Christian Supremacism based on genetics.
"So? Many documents (like the new testament) claim to take precidence over the Torah, which itself claims precidence over other religious systems. The question is how much precidence an individule gives to these documents. So I ask again, have you talk to any jews and asked them what document is most important to their religion?"
Some will say the Talmud; others will lie and say the Torah. Judaism is based on precepts of "free interpretation" so each Jew is free to make up his own version of the religion.
Where?
Did you miss this?
They answered, and said to him: Abraham is our father. Jesus saith to them: If you be the children of Abraham, do the works of Abraham. But now you seek to kill me, a man who have spoken the truth to you, which I have heard of God. This Abraham did not.
You do the works of your father. They said therefore to him: We are not born of fornication: we have one Father, even God. Jesus therefore said to them: If God were your Father, you would indeed love me. For from God I proceeded, and came; for I came not of myself, but he sent me: Why do you not know my speech? Because you cannot hear my word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and he stood not in the truth; because truth is not in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father thereof.
(Gospel According to Saint John viii. 39-44)
Spak and whitewater will warrant a response when they learn to how to have an intelligent conversation open to ideas rather than a bash fest... I am glad this provides you with such comedy...
You know what the worst thing is? It's something that was brought to my attention by a co-worker while having a religious discussion in the lab.
Fundies...AREN'T!!
By definition, a fundamentalist is someone who follows the fundamentals of something...So a fundamentalist Christian would be one who follows the 3 main tenets of Christianity:
1) Christ is Savior.
2) Love your God above all else
3 Love your neighbor as yourself.
Everything else kinda just falls into place. Defensor, it seems that by YOUR bashing of both Jews and their religion, you are treating others differently from how you want to be treated.
That sir, MAKES YOU NOT A CHRISTIAN. It makes you a hypocrite and a blasphemer of the highest order.
I sincerely hope that, at some point in your life, you decide to sit down, read the Bible carefully, study the factual history surrounding it, and maybe consider the core message of Christ's teachings.
Of course, this is America, so feel free to disagree with me all you want, as is your right.
I'll feel free to disagree right back.
</seriousness>
And now for my less-intelligent reaction:
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!!
*dies laughing*
Lets see if I understand this.
You claim that "each Jew is free to make up his own version of the religion" and you prove it by quoting
words from another religion.
"Spak and whitewater will warrant a response when they learn to how to have an intelligent conversation "
You will warrent an intelligent response when you show signs of intelligence. Until then, the comedy will continue. You show no capacity for anything else.
<< And that makes a difference how? You are claiming that jews are racist. I'm telling you that many christians are racist. >>
That's a non sequitur. Christians are not a race; there is no Christian Supremacism based on genetics.
D.F., are you being deliberately obtuse on this point? He's not saying that Christianity is genetic. He is saying that many racists are Christian, and many even use Christianity (i.e., Christian traditions and biblical passages, often out of context or wildly misinterpreted) to try to justify their racism. This doesn't mean that Christianity is racist; it means that racism can appear anywhere and will twist any doctrine to suit its agenda.
~David D.G.
"Christians are not a race; there is no Christian Supremacism based on genetics."
I'm still not seeing the point. You're saying that Jews are racist. But how does that make them not jews?
"Some will say the Talmud; others will lie and say the Torah. Judaism is based on precepts of "free interpretation" so each Jew is free to make up his own version of the religion."
Says who? have you asked any? And if so, so what? There are many different interpretations of christianity. Does that mean that christians are worshiping Satan?
As for your bible quote. Jesus seems to be chiding them for not accepting him. Is your argument that real jews would have accepted Jesus and become christians?
Well, that goes with the fact that he was celebrating Passover to glorify the Jewsish god, and firing trade men because they were insulting his "father's" house. Man, you live in the moon.
Spak and whitewater will warrant a response when they learn to how to have an intelligent conversation open to ideas rather than a bash fest...
As I said, asswipe, you are afraid to debate in a forum, because you know that I will totally destroy your bullshit, nazi dogma with reality, truth and logic.
Do carry on with your mud pies.
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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