Consider this. If a person borrows $1 billion to fund a company and then goes and squanders it in a week of wild living in Las Vegas, his inability to repay the debt does not alleviate him of the responsibility to do so. Our condition in Adam is like a debt we cannot repay. We are responsible. The command to believe the gospel is to be proclaimed to all men. All are responsible to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who was crucified for sinners, then rose from the dead and that He grants forgiveness of sin to ALL who believe. But when the synergist says but "men may be saved if they will." we must reply, "Agreed, we all believe that; however, it is the "if they will" that is the difficulty. Are men ever found NATURALLY willing to submit to the humbling terms of the gospel of Christ? Jesus Himself declares that no man will come to Christ unless God grants it (John 6:63-65).
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Nope. I was not born at that time, so I am not responsible. Also, this is a problem between christians and their god, if it even exists. I am not a christian, so it is not my problem.
"Our condition in Adam is like a debt we cannot repay"
So it's like at the Hotel California, where you can check out any time you like but you can never leave.
Sunder der vaters is literal cruelty, as is the idea that a creator of a closed system has to make it certain exact way. He expect infinite payment from his creations, therefore making them effective slaves. Cute, utterly immoral and termination worthy but cute nevertheless.
If you're named Trump, it does. He'll just have another bankruptcy or say "Sue me", and alleviate himself of the responsibility to pay.
Your "condition in Adam" is not you borrowing 1 billion dollars, it's your great-great-great-etc grandfather borrowing money and you're left with the debt.
All MEN? Great, then I needn't bother.
Consider this completely unrelated scenario as a analog for bullshit.
Again: Jesus died and was came back, ok, nothing else changed.
We're still waiting for Donald Fart to show us his tax returns.
So unless you voted for Hillary Clinton, enjoy your paradox.
Wait, so now it's a two-stage process? We have to get God's approval before we can believe in Jesus? What if we really, really, really want to believe in Jesus, but God decides we're not worthy?
Except that, you know, if the person that is indebted does not or cannot pay, I'm pretty sure all his descendants aren't allowed to be forced to become indentured servants for all eternity. At least, not in a civilized world. "Sins of the Fathers" isn't a thing moral people appeal to, as Skide said. You cannot hold a person responsible for the mistakes of another one. No matter who it is.
Granted, if I choose to inherit my father's legacy, then I might be held responisble for the debts that come with it as a single package. But nobody asked me if I wanted to inheret anything from Adam. In fact, according to you, I didn't even inherit anything aside from his unpayable debts.
But what do I care? I'm not a Christian. Therefore not a descendant from Adam and therefore should be exempt from this imaginary debt.
When my mother died, it was her estate that was responsible for any debts she owed, not her children. Therefor I am not responsible for the "debt" of original sin from Adam and Eve. Nor did Jesus paid my debt, because I didn't owe any.
Consider this. If a person borrows $1 billion to fund a company and then goes and squanders it in a week of wild living in Las Vegas, his inability to repay the debt does not alleviate him of the responsibility to do so. Our condition in Adam is like a debt we cannot repay. We are responsible. The command to believe the gospel is to be proclaimed to all men. All are responsible to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God who was crucified for sinners, then rose from the dead and that He grants forgiveness of sin to ALL who believe. But when the synergist says but "men may be saved if they will." we must reply, "Agreed, we all believe that; however, it is the "if they will" that is the difficulty. Are men ever found NATURALLY willing to submit to the humbling terms of the gospel of Christ? Jesus Himself declares that no man will come to Christ unless God grants it (John 6:63-65).
Consider this. Your great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather is tricked into borrowing a $1 billion dollar loan from someone claiming to be a representative of a bank, but in fact he was a disgruntled ex-employee of said bank who was fired just days before. But since he filed all the right documents at said bank, the bank enforces the loan. Your great grandaddy received a bad check for the billion, and the bank's records still show that 1 billion was loaned. 4,000 years pass, and with it 4,000 years of interest was incurred. Also the bank didn't allow any payments to be made before this time, and what's worst more disgruntled ex-employees were allowed to continue to offer bad loans to the man's descendants, racking more and more enormous debts for the poor estate. Then one day, one of your ancestors (still shackled by debt) is visited by another person claiming to be the vice president of the bank, claiming to have deposited the full amount, principal and interest included, into his bank account for three days. The man checks his bank, and still sees the debt. The person claiming to be the bank vice president says “It was there. I left it in there for three days but since you didn't notice I withdrew the funds again. Don't you feel grateful?” And then demands that you worship him and serve the bank, or the bank will send disgruntled ex-employees over to the man's house to burn it down and then cast him and all his descendants into a torture basement. Money's no longer an issue, the man will either pay the bill in eternal slavery or in raw, fiery pain. 2,000 years later you are born, the bank and its disgruntled employees are figures of myth and legend, but for some reasons you've still got people claiming to representatives from this bank showing up at your doorstep saying that your great-great-great-great-great-great-great grandfather's billion dollar debt is still in effect and you should worship the bank or face your house burning down and you being consigned to a torture basement.
"If a person borrows $1 billion to fund a company and then goes and squanders it in a week of wild living in Las Vegas, his inability to repay the debt does not alleviate him of the responsibility to do so."
True.
False.
By the way, what did Adam do? He ate the fruit from the tree that granted him knowledge of good and evil. Until he ate the fruit, he had no capacity to know that what he was doing was wrong. In other words, Bob didn't borrow the $100 from me, I slipped it into his pocket while he wasn't looking and then had him arrested for theft!
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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