FSTDT Improvements!

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Quote# 127165

Now that I'm out for the summer and free to work on FSTDT more or less full time, we need to get down to srs bisness on several things. (And, yes, I know this is going to be long and a lot to read, but please try to read it anyway, and please contribute if you feel like it!)

As I've said before, I'm not going to make any further changes to the current server-side codebase unless it is an emergency (since it will all be for naught come Novemberish); however, there are still lots of things that can be done — and some that need to be done — that don't involve messing with the server-side code and will be incorporated into both the current site and the new one. And that's what I want us to talk and discuss in this post, that way when I work on them, I'll make something you guys are happy with! Since there are only four main points I want to tackle right now, I think we can discuss and work out all of them at the same time without the thread descending into madness.

First item of bisness

We need to decide what we want to put in the Friends of FSTDT section. I'm going to resurrect it and put it back up sometime this week after we decide on what should go there, so somments and suggestions plz. Rational Wiki, ReligiousTolerance.org, We Hunted the Mammoth, The Friendly Atheist, Southern Poverty Law Center, and The Skeptic's Annotated Bible are givens. Any other obvious ones I forgot? Not so obvious ones?

Wonkette is another site I want to add that wasn't on the old list, and one that I think that most people will agree on. But I'll of course scratch that if I'm wrong and the majority of you disagree about including it.

I'm also on the fence about adding Feministing, because I feel like we need something more informative and substantial than We Hunted the Mammoth to counter the cretins in SSTDT. Feministing is overall sane: they're anti-TERF, sex-positive, and generally believe males can be feminists. Every now and then, though, their articles straddle the fence between "The overwhelming majority of reasonable, educated people would agree with this" and what I'd describe as "A lot of people would see this as alarmist and overly sensitive, but it's understandable to me and not really fundie either way." (But if I'm wrong on that and you have examples of brazen fundieness there, please correct me!) What do you guys think?

Additionally, to counter Tumblrinas, Tumblritos, and SJWs, I also want something social-justice related that is sane and informative for people who don't understand what social justice means and encompasses. Basically something that shows there's a line between social-justice advocates and crazy-ass self-professed "social-justice warriors." Unfortunately, I don't really know of a good site along those lines. Any of you guys know one? (Or think this is a bad idea?)

I also wanna add the ASPCA and American Humane Society (plus their counterparts across the pond — and perhaps the other countries in the Anglosphere), but that's me getting on my own off-topic soapbox, so I won't do that unless a very large majority of you agree it's okay. I'd also group all those links into a drop-down menu if there are several. That will be very easy to do since I'm going to be coding the list of Friends of FSTDT links as a proper HTML list and using CSS to style it so it looks like other | groups | of | links | on | the | site.

(I might also work on doing the same for the top navbar sometime this week, but that's another topic.)

Second and third items of bisness

Second item of business: Right now the "About FSTDT" section link that I added to the right side of the front page is a dummy link. That's because I when I added it I wanted you guys to decide what should go in the "About FSTDT" section and how we should describe ourselves. So any ideas about that? And does anyone want to chip in and write the section once we decide on how to organize and what to put there? (You'll definitely get credit!)

Third item of business: I want to redo the FAQ. There are two things that need to be done. One, we need to work out how to improve what's already there: what needs to be reworded, reordered, otherwise changed, removed, etc. Then we need to decide if here are any new questions and answers we should put there. (A mini-guide on how to format submissions and comments and use YsCodes/BBCodes is already a must.)

Fourth item of bisness

Finally, even though I'm not doing any more feature-work on the current server-side code base, I'm totally open to making changes to the client-side code, i.e. things that can be implemented using HTML, CSS, and JavaScript. Since most client-side code can be very easily reused, feel free to make lots of suggestions about features and suchlike that can be implemented without messing with the server-side code. (If you have an idea but you're not sure whether it involves messing with server-side or client-side code, just throw it at me, and I'll tell you if it can be done.)


After we get these first four points out of the way, there are a few other similar things that need to be done. But I'm not going to say what yet, because you guys will likely start discussing them beforehand, and then this thread will become more than I can keep up with at one time.

...aaand one last thing, the Shy Says blog that I intended to make to supersede the old SSTDT (Shy Says the Darndest Things!) should finally show up by this weekend at the latest. If by then I'm still having trouble getting the code to run on the VPS I have now, then I will make a temporary BlogSpot account for it until I can work out any problems and get it running on the original code I wrote for it.

Improving FSTDT now, We can do it! 36 Comments [5/14/2017 6:25:45 PM]
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Submitted By: shy

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Insult to Rocks

Considering it's something constantly asked by people new to the site, I think it might be wise to put the directions for embedding quotes and images into posts in the FAQ.

5/15/2017 8:48:44 AM


Yeah, definitely. I considered that part of the whole how to format posts and use YsCodes.

5/15/2017 9:53:38 AM


on point 1:
What do you guys think about metabunk.org?
I am aware that it has somewhat an opposite approach to handling CTists (no insults or mocking allowed, but they have good reasons to, imo).
on point 4:
Is it possible to have some kind of indication, like on the forums, which quotes are new (unread) and which quotes have new comments on them?
It's probably hard to do I guess but I would very much appreciate it.

5/15/2017 11:44:20 AM

Jocasta McFucken

Well, if we have a "friends" section, should we acknowledge also the sites that keep the site in business too? Or just leave the Rapture Ready, David J. Stewart and Christian News Network submissions to speak for themselves...

5/16/2017 12:17:12 AM


@SomeApe: I definitely like the idea of including MetaBunk in the links. As for the second point, that would require work on the server-side code (and a pretty good bit of it at that), though I'm open to adding something like that to the new site since implementing it with the new code will be much easier.

@Jamaican Castle: Half playing around with doing a "Foes of FSTDT" thing or similar for that.

5/16/2017 1:12:13 AM

Jocasta McFucken

"Jamaican Castle" LOL

I apologize for my profane name, there is a story behind it.

Yes, I would love to see a "foes" list - as long as it isn't perceived by them as a declaration of war. On the other hand, if they do, do we care?

5/16/2017 9:56:16 AM


@Jocasta: I think shy just confused you with another user named Jamaican Castle, rather than having a problem with the profanity of your name. You told us the story. It was in your spam-mail, right?

And, no, we shouldn't care because they think we're out to get them anyway.

5/17/2017 3:48:42 AM

Jocasta McFucken

Oh, there is really a Jamaican Castle? Sorry about that. Shy addressed my issue directly so I thought she was speaking to me.

5/17/2017 9:08:06 AM


I think we should create a HSTDT (Homophobes Say the Darndest Things).

Also, I second the ideas from @Jocasta McFucken and @Insult to Rocks

5/17/2017 5:03:38 PM


1st Item: I think countering the crazy parts of self-declared Social Justice Warriors would be a great idea, so I'm trying to find something that would do that.
2nd Iten: I'd be willing to write the about section. Something like "FSTDT is a web community based around mocking religious and political extremists" pops to mind.
3rd Item: The FAQ is pretty good, it's just really old. You can add whatever Shy flare you want to that thing.
4th Item: Nothing right now for me to address here tbh.

5/17/2017 6:30:08 PM


Calling Jocasta Jamaican Castle was my bad! I was half-asleep when I replied. There is a Jamaican Castle, though. Also, I'm a dude, dude.

HSTDT would be branching FSTDT off into too many sections. :| Still I'd like to have all the queerphobe quotes in one place too. I already have something in mind for addressing this issue, roughly equivalent to replacing the sections of the current site with tags but not quite the same.

5/18/2017 10:07:17 AM

First Item:

Other sites that would be good to add are Ex-Christian.net, Pharyngula, Daily Kos, Right Wing Watch, Feminist Frequency.com and Truthdig.

I have no objections to Wonkette.

I do object to Feministing for most of the reasons that you list for liking the site, namely "sex-positive, and generally believe males can be feminists." Males can be allies of feminists but because cis men and boys have male privilege they can never totally understand what it is like to live as a woman and thus can't ever completely be feminists. The term "sex positive" is also ridiculous, as if women who are skeptical of the sex industry and heterosexuality in a patriarchal society are "sex negative." Personally I prefer the terms sex-tolerant and sex-skeptical. As a skeptic, I think that applying critical thinking to sexuality as defined by a patriarchal society to be a good thing. So no to Feministing.

Regarding "sane" social justice: Is this a bad idea? Very. If this site is going to promote social justice it should promote other sites and bloggers that are truly committed to the cause of social justice, not concern trolls that are more content with tone-policing. Even though some take it too far most Tumblr social justice bloggers are on the right side of history. They shouldn't be ridiculed for wanting to improve society.

I have no problems with linking to ASPCA or AHS (or even PETA like Yahweh did) just please don't put links on every page like Yahweh used to do with the PETA links.

Second Item:

The About FSTDT should say what exactly this site is (ie. a site dedicating to mocking zealous adherents). It should definitely have something on why we think religious extremism is baleful and thus worth mocking. It should also include the history of the site (ie. the WinAce Era, Yahweh Era, Distind Era, Shy Era). It could include some sort of mission statement of what we are trying to accomplish if anyone can agree on what it should be.

Third Item:

I have never much liked the current FAQ as it is a truncated version of the original FAQ:https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20041209075857/http://users.rcn.com:80/rostmd/winace/fundies/fstdt_faq.htm I don't know how to make the current version better, short of rewriting it from scratch. Maybe some stuff could be salvaged from the current version?

Fourth Item:

Nothing to say here. I know nothing about coding.

5/19/2017 11:15:41 AM


Maybe we should leave the Friends section out? Unless you actually want to have an argument about what feminism is and whether feministing counts...

5/19/2017 2:06:47 PM


David J.Stewart should have his own page.

5/19/2017 9:25:23 PM



Again, this is going to be long, but bear with me here. Also try to read my reply to #2054049. It contains a lot of clarifications and things I don't feel like repeating.

I've given all of your comments some thought, but I'm calling executive privilege on a few things. There will be no "foes of FSTDT" or suchlike, and the "Friends of FSTDT" section will be called "Other sites of interest" instead.

I've also decided on a few links, and I'm going to include them unless there's some kind of massive backlash against them:

- Cult Education Institute
- Metabunk
- Rational Wiki
- ReligiousTolerance.org
- Right Wing Watch
- Skeptic's Annotated Bible
- The Friendly Atheist
- US Humane Society
- We Hunted the Mammoth
- Wonkette

You guys got any more? If so, shoot 'em my way.

I've gotten a rough draft of a new FAQ mostly written, and I'm going to start on a rough draft of the about section some time tomorrow. When I get finished, I'll post them both together and get your feedback. It may be a couple of days, though, because pyro and I are going to get together and discuss coding things sometime tomorrow, and I have some weekend plans.

@P.E.T.F.: Nah, that's elevating him higher than he deserves to be.

@pyro: You gonna be around sometime tomorrow afternoon about 4:00–5:00 US Eastern Time? That's when I'll most likely be able to discuss things without any interruptions, but stop by any time (and plz keep stopping by so we have another IRCer). When you get on IRC, register your nick so we can use MemoServ. If you see me in #fstdt and I'm idling, just leave a MemoServ message telling me you tried to get in touch and what time would be best for you. I'll respond to it and we'll arrange something.


Thank you for this comment. This is exactly the kind of honesty and criticism I was wanting. I don't entirely agree with what you said on point one, but that's precisely why I created this thread. (However, even a respectful debate is completely off-point and derail the thread.) Also, if you comment again, please use a name so I can keep up with who's who in this thread without having to use IPs. If you want to be anonymous, just make up something to use only in this thread as long as it's not a bunch of random numbers and letters. This also applies for all would-be anonymous commenters.

As for the rest of point one, concern-trolling and tone-policing is at best vapid. It's not what I mean "sane" here. I think you're also misunderstanding what I'm implying by that word. I'm not implying that the majority of people — or even a large minority of them — who are associated with feminism, social-justice advocacy, Tumblr, etc. are not sane or reasonable. Rather, I'm acknowledging that quotes from said people that wind up here are not what most readers would consider "sane" or "reasonable," even though those quotes are about causes and other things most FSTDTers support. I'm also not implying that the majority of Tumblr users are Tumblritos/rinas. Still, my idea of the number of them has no doubt been overinflated by the Tumblr quotes that wind up here and the fact that I don't have a Tumblr.

But yeah, what you're getting at here is the reason why I want to include links to things that counteract them. FSTDT unfairly gives a very skewed and bad impression of people who support certain causes (e.g. social justice, feminism, LGBT issues) and what their typical standpoints are. What I want to counteract it is something that draws attention and explains these issues in a way that is thoughtful, cool-headed, and reasonably easy for a passerby to understand and makes points they haven't considered, i.e. the opposite of fundie. Beating around the bush, sugarcoating, and pretending all opinions are ~equal~ and ~valid~ goes against accomplishing this and is not the same as being calm, rational, and respectful.

I know I most likely come across as wishy-washy, but it's because I'm trying to make the site reflect the will of its readers. (Well, up to a certain point: if you all turn into a bunch of fuckwitted wingnuts, then I'm packing up and leaving.) I'm also not interested in what my opinion and ideas are or expressing them when I ask for yours, so I keep most of it to myself and only provide enough to be a starting point for discussion.

And no PETA or plastering animal-rights links everywhere. I'll keep it in the links section only. Spewing "Think of the innocent animuls!!" everywhere is obnoxious and does nothing, no matter how much I care for the well being and humane treatment of animals.

Second item

I hadn't even considered the history of the site, so thank you for mentioning it! I will definitely include it now when I do a rough draft of the About section. I'm not sure if I can come up with a coherent mission statement everyone agrees on.

I can say that if FSTDT does anything constructive beyond entertainment, I think it is calling out zealotry and showing it for what it is—straight out of the horse's mouth—and the comments provide a place for people to relate to others when they live somewhere that nutjobs are the norm. So that plus the entertainment value is what my mission statement for the site is.

Third item

Working on the FAQ so far has been much easier than I expected. I wound up doing what you said and scrapping most of everything.

5/20/2017 12:37:01 AM

Jocasta McFucken

Shy is a dude? Where on earth did I ever get the idea you weren't? So sorry.

I like all your ideas. Regarding homophobe posts I think they already get a fair bit of exposure from the worst elements of the religious crowd, so it is probably not necessary to give them their own group. Homophobes tend to be almost exclusively religious.

5/20/2017 7:02:35 AM

Pharaoh Bastethotep

While I cannot comment on the quality of Feministing in particular, I object to #2054049's positions on feminism, and, as far as I am aware, the same is true for the userbase in general.

5/20/2017 11:12:48 AM


@Jocasta: Hey, it's cool man. Not the first time it's happened, and no doubt not the last.

I think that perception has to do with a lot of things, most of it my being overly polite, going out of my way to make people feel welcome, and saying "you guys" a lot. Hey, I grew up in Canada, and those stereotypes are somewhat true from an American standpoint — and they're also things that people learn to perceive as being "submissive" (or "air-headed" in the case of "you guys") and thus "feminine" because dumbfuck patriarchal shit, etc.* There's that and the fact I talk about my husband, ingrained heteronormative assumptions, etc. Text is disembodied either way: unless someone overtly mentions it, there's no way you can tell their gender by their words, so people are prone to make assumptions and roll with them. I catch myself doing it all the time despite trying not to.

5/20/2017 2:13:41 PM


Suggestion for "other sites":

The Brick Testament - hilarous lego recap of the bible
Talk Origins Index of Creationist Claims- ridiculously useful resource
The FSM website- The original page that was created lampooning giving creationism "equal time"
ironchariots.org - Been awhile since i've visited, but surely relevant somehow.

maybe some links to skeptic sites? James Randi et al.

Drawing a blank on anything else, but these should contribute to the discussion.

5/20/2017 2:20:09 PM


@Mathius_dragoon: I had thought about keeping The Brick Testament too, but when I was checking which links worked in the old FSTDT link section, it was down (or my Internet was being stupid), so I assumed it was dead. Glad I was wrong.

Talk Origins: No objections whatsoever. Adding it and keeping it on the tentative links list unless I start getting death threats for it.

FSM Website: Another thing I dumbly assumed was dead. Added.

Iron Chariots: Indifferent. Give me a few yay votes, and I'll add it.

Here's what we've got so far, guys. Links in red are ones I'm calling executive privilege on and vetoing any objections to unless there's a truly massive riot against them with torches and pitchforks and a lynch mob. Links in blue I'm considering decided if there are no major objections, so speak now or forever hold your peace. Links in green are provisional. I'll turn 'em blue with two or three yay votes as long as they don't receive more nay votes. If they do after they've turned blue, I'm turning them green and leaving them that way until I've decided to go with what we've got for now. Then I'll count up all the votes and feedback and decide what stays and goes.

+ Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster
+ Cult Education Institute
+ Daily Kos
+ Iron Chariots
+ Metabunk
+ Rational Wiki: Probably calling executive privilege to objections. (But seems to be getting a bit irrational lately, what with James Wilson, so...)
+ ReligiousTolerance.org
+ Right Wing Watch
+ Skeptic's Annotated Bible
+ Snopes
+ Talk Origins
+ The Brick Testament
+ The Friendly Atheist
+ Think Progress
+ US Humane Society: Unless most people would prefer the ASPCA.
+ We Hunted the Mammoth
+ Wonkette

5/20/2017 3:22:09 PM


Senior FSTDTers: I need your help!!

For the history of the site in the about section, I'm dividing it into six "eras": two for WinAce and Yahweh, one for Distind, and one for me. (It'll make sense when you look at what I've got below.) I need help badly with the dates and making sure everything is in correct chronological order and the right era. So here's a timeline with the info I have — not the actual draft version of the history. Stuff with question marks need clarification or verification. I'd like at least approximate months for everything if possible.

WinAce Era I (??? 2001?? - ??? 2003)
+ Epoch: FSTDT started as a set of static HTML files under the name Christians Say the Darndest Things.
+ FSTDT is renamed to, well, FSTDT: Date ?

WinAce Era II (??? 2003 - November 2005?)
+ Epoch: FSTDT transforms from collection of static HTML files to the dynamic, database driven ASP(.NET) site it is now. Also, who wrote the first version of the code?

Yahweh Era I (November 2005? - ???)
+ Epoch: When Yahweh took over for WinAce and was actually pronounced owner of the site. Obviously WinAce was not manning the site during his final days (rest in peace, dude), but what was going on there? Was he named owner of the until the end, or had Yahweh stepped in as owner sometime before then? If so, when did this happen?
+ CSTDT opens: Date?
+ Forums open: Date?

[FSTDT goes down for several months]

Yahweh Era II (??? - December 2008)
+ Epoch: Site comes back up again
+ RSTDT opens: Date?

Distind Era (December 2008 - November 2016)
+ Epoch: Yahweh abandons the site and Distind takes over.
+ Everything is much clearer to me from here on out because I showed up and started reading FSTDT about a year before Yahweh put the site into "read-only mode" and abandoned it. I also started commenting a couple months before that she made that, erm, highly questionable decision, and I was lurking in the original IRC a little before then. I already know or don't need help finding dates for these things, though I'm not perfect so provide any corrections when I put up the dates.
+ Keiro gives us a new forum (for a certain definition of "give", given his actions)+ a new IRC on digibase.ca
+ FSTDT Forums split and rename themselves FQA

Shy Era (November 2016 - Present, or if you prefer, ?????? :p)
+ Epoch: Distind hands the site over to me
+ FQA forums rejoin FSTDT and rename themselves back: January 2017.
+ SSTDT opens: February 2017.
+ IRC revival: May 2017 (ongoing)

I don't see any need to split the Distind Era into two parts. Do you guys? (Obviously there's no reason whatsoever to split mine.) The history most likely needs a few other things added to it that I looked over. So what else should we add (and dates plz if possible)?

5/20/2017 6:44:39 PM


Okay guys, here's what I have of the FAQ so far. I had to split it into two parts here due to length. Anything else I need to add? Feedback? I've already got a couple questions planned for "This person is mentally ill" and "There should be an X Says the Darndest things" as well as one about the forums being independent but very closely affiliated with the main page. Links to pages will be added where necessary. Also, the order of the questions is probably going to be changed since I wrote them in the order I thought of them, and they're definitely going to be formatted in HTML as a definition list.

(Part I)

Q: What is this?

A: [Very brief description of FSTDT will go here]

See the About FSTDT and FSTDT History pages for more information.

Q: What is a "fundie"?

A: Fundies are really a sort of "you know one when you see one" kind of thing, but here are a few general characteristics prototypical of them:

+ Zealotry or extremism of any kind, be it religious, political, or even something else
+ Rigid, dogmatic thinking
+ Total refusal to consider alternatives to their beliefs and opinions
+ Confusing one's beliefs and opinions with objective truth
+ Willful ignorance or divorcement from reality
+ Refusal to accept mountains of evidence against their beliefs or opinions
+ Blatant double standards with respect to evidence or burden of proof
+ Bigotry and hatred toward an innocent group or class of people
+ Repeated use of multiple logical fallacies
+ Judging others collectively rather than individually
+ Calling themselves a "true [thing]"
+ "I'm not [thing], but..."
+ Massively unwarranted sense of self-importance
+ Pretentious, supercilious, or smug attitude toward others
+ Walls of text without paragraph breaks
+ Excessive use of ellipses

Some of these traits alone nearly always indicate a fundie (e.g. zealotry and extremism, willful ignorance and divorcement from reality). However, most of them alone do not, but the greater the number of them present, the greater the likelihood of being a fundie.

[I think that about covers it, but is there anything obvious I missed?]

Q: Quote X isn't fundie! It doesn't say anything about religion.

A: Fundies aren't necessarily religious. One can be a fundie with regards to almost anything; all it takes are the qualities usually associated with religious fundamentalists. Even atheists and agnostics can be fundie, and I would go so far as to argue that political extremists are religious fundamentalists; their politics is their religion. See the above question.

Q: Quote X isn't fundie, period.

A: When I approve quotes, I generally accept most quotes and let the Fundie Index decide that, so if you think a quote isn't fundie, then cast your "meh" vote! Whenever the Fundie Index of a quote dips into the negatives, I try to catch that and and delete the quote. I also outright reject the very few entirely reasonable quote submissions that can't be construed as "fundie" in any way. My modly minions and Ravy have their own different "styles" when it comes to moderating quotes. Since they generally exercise good judgment, I consider this a good thing for the most part, but I sometimes do override their decisions to approve quotes. That's very rare, though, since I follow the whole "Let the Fundie Index decide" thing.

Q: Why wasn't my quote submission approved?

A: Make sure your submission followed the Quote Submission Guidelines where necessary. If it didn't follow them, then it was likely rejected. If you read the Guidelines and resubmit your quote so it follows them, then it will most likely be approved the second time around. Also give your quote a little time to be approved. Most quotes are approved, but it might take up to a day or more if the admin queue is really full and only one or two mods are available to approve quotes at the time. Additionally, I manually check the database fairly regularly and read over recently rejected quotes. I put anything back into the admin queue if I think it deserves a second chance to be approved. Another thing to note is that I start rejecting quotes automatically after I approve around 20 or so at one time. I tag those quotes to be put back in the queue on a slow day, or at least a slower day. Other mods may or may not do this.

Q: Who runs this place?

A: I am a guy who calls himself Shy. The handle used to be appropriate, but not so much anymore. Aside from that, all I'm willing to reveal as far as personal information goes is what I say in comments and other posts. Guess I am sort of "shy" in that respect, but I've learnt from past experience to keep my online and "real" lives as well as my different circles of friends as separate as possible.

RavynousHunter ("Ravy") is a co-admin, but he mostly stays behind the scenes. My modly minions are Pharaoh, mikeytron, pyro, SomeApe, and Zachski. Some post comments, other moderate comments, and some do a little bit of both. (Some also post their own comments less than others.)

[SomeApe, if you're reading this, you are been a chosen one, dude! You can now approve (or reject) quotes and moderate comments. Do whatever you want or nothing at all. I'll discuss it with you in the IRC later. Swede, if you're reading this, I'm also strongly considering you if you're willing to accept. You would make an excellent moderator. You'd also offset the sausage fest the admins and mods have become, but I'm more interested in skills and merit than that.]

Q: Your site is really slow, ugly, and buggy.

A: We know. We're working on it. An entirely new version of the site's code rewritten from scratch will be available late this year or early next year. Existing bugs in the current code most likely won't be fixed unless they are very serious.

Q: Why can't I use certain characters or emoji in my posts?

A: The database of the current site doesn't support Unicode. This is an issue that will be fully addressed in the new site. (See previous question.)

Q: Is the FSTDT code open source?

A: The current code is not, but the new code will be open source, hosted on GitHub, and licensed under the MPL with a "no secondary licenses" clause. It won't be made public until it is in a more complete state (something along the lines of half-complete). [The answer to this question will change as appropriate.]

Q: Do people really believe this crazy stuff?? How can you be sure they're not trolls?

A: Yeah, they do. As someone who spent a good portion of his life living in the Deep South, I can attest to that myself personally and have had more than a couple in-face run-ins and spats with fundies. As for the second question, sometimes it's really hard if not impossible to tell when someone's trolling. See the question on Poes.

[Insert WinAce and Distind's answer to this question here]

Q: What is a Poe?

A: The term Poe comes from Poe's law, as formulated by Nathan Poe: "Without a clear indication of the author's intent, it is difficult or impossible to tell the difference between an expression of sincere extremism and a parody of extremism." The word Poe was originally used to describe cases where it was impossible to tell if the person was being serious or not, but now it is used for trolls who act like fundies and their quotes.

Q: Why don't you delete known Poes?

A: We usually do, but we let the ones who are genuinely really funny stay and mark them as known Poes. I might even set up a "Poes Say The Darndest Things!" for them one day, but right now there aren't really enough quotes for it. Good Poes are hard to come by.

Q: I really like FSTDT! Is there anyway I can help out? Can I donate to you guys?

A: Sure. Report any trolls, misfiled quotes, formatting errors, serious bugs, etc. you can find. You can either post them in the Site/Off-Topic Discussion Thread or email them to me. You can also help out by submitting quotes or even just posting comments; those are what keep FSTDT going. If you're a web designer or a code monkey, then get in touch with me by email or IRC. Prospective code monkeys need basic experience and general knowledge of server-side and/or client-side web application development, JavaScript and Node.js, and preferably SQL (especially PostgreSQL). If you're a novice who has the basics under your belt, I will happily mentor you.

As for donations, I really do appreciate the kindness, but I'm not accepting donations. I have enough money to fund the site out-of-pocket, and I don't mind flipping the bill at all. Keeping FSTDT going is not very expensive, anyway; it costs less than my Internet bill. Instead of FSTDT, strongly consider donating your money to the US Humane Society or ASPCA (or the equivalents in your country). Like one of the previous admins, Yahweh, animal welfare is an issue I'm really passionate about.

5/21/2017 8:26:54 AM


(Part II)

Q: How do I format posts?

A: See here. [A link for how to format posts will go here and likely on the front page as well]

Q: I have a quote here, and I want it removed!

A: I usually don't remove quotes unless it is a misquote or something taken out of context. However, I am perfectly willing to insert a note at the top of the post saying that the person quoted has since had a change of heart or no longer believes what is quoted. If you'd like to do that, send me an email.

Q: ...but I have a lawyer!

A: And I can afford several. :) Yours probably needs to be disbarred because your "case" almost certainly has no legal standing whatsoever. It's not my job to explain why. Try this route and you'll see.

5/21/2017 12:32:27 PM



Males can be allies of feminists but because cis men and boys have male privilege they can never totally understand what it is like to live as a woman and thus can't ever completely be feminists.

Shit like this is why I shudder and prepare for the worst whenever I see the word "allies" used in this sort of context. What, so because I'm not a woman my criticisms of how shittily certain sectors of society continue to treat women, which should be obvious to anyone with two functioning eyes, is worthless? Because that's what denying me the right to be called a feminist is pretty much saying. The word "ally" itself really doesn't sit well with me; it comes off as a word that indicates a very begrudging relationship, a sense of "oh well you're an evil privileged shit but I suppose I'll acknowledge your futile attempts to side with me, just don't expect me to treat you with a smidgen of respect" as opposed to any kind of real friendship or appreciation of the supposed alliance.

In the era of Trump, feminism and other such causes need all the help they can get. I have no tolerance for snooty in-group exclusionists.

5/21/2017 1:17:05 PM


@Uilliam: Let it go, buddy. This is not the place. Take it to the S/OTDT thread if this person chooses to respond.

5/21/2017 1:31:01 PM

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