@#2044601
@Shepard SolusThis is a crazy fundamentalist quote. There are no protected classes; religious/atheist, political, social, sexual, fandom and anything else are accepted.
In your opinion there may be no "protected classes" but, personally, I don't submit quotes from Muslims as I do not think there is any comedy to be gained from punching down. Being that I'm a westerner, I don't not believe it is morally right for me to criticize Muslim religion, society or culture.
I find your view to be objectionable on several fronts; indeed, this train of thought is even downright dangerous. Please bear with me and I'll explain why.
Firstly, your perspective is West-centric. You may feel like it is 'punching down' there, but there are many other regions where Muslims are very much in the majority and certainly no underdog. Regions where other religions (or denominations of Islam) are often oppressed by the Muslim majority, in fact.
While most people on FSTDT are apparently from the West, there are others from all over the world. Our perspective is universal - we cover all of Earth, admittedly with the caveat that quotes have to be submitted in the English language so that we can understand them. But they can come from anywhere - including, say, Raqqa or Riyadh. I think you can figure out why I used those places as an example.
Secondly, your blanket refusal to criticize Muslims is dangerous - primarily for Muslims. This is exactly the sort of thing that plays into the hand of the far right and islamophobes in general, who claim that liberals refuse to criticize Muslims even when they obviously do horrible things.
Furthermore, by refusing to say anything critical of Muslims in general you fall into the same trap that the aforementioned islamophobes do: you conflate radical fundamentalist Muslims with the peaceful, mainstream ones.
People on this site are generally perfectly capable of distinguishing between the two (the exceptions, like NeoMatrix, get mocked and quoted regularly). The fact that many in the larger public aren't doesn't mean that the way to protect Muslims is through enforced silence. On the contrary, we too should condemn the radicals loudly and clearly, while emphasizing that they do not represent the larger Muslim community.
Transparency and open discussion, with criticism where necessary - those are the key to moving forward. The Muslim community needs to maintain a clear separation from the radicals, and we should help them with that by doing the same. Any sort of obfuscation is bound to fail and to reinforce the far right's suspicions that Muslims in general lack honesty and approve of the terrorists.
@#2044601
Being that I'm a westerner, I don't not believe it is morally right for me to criticize Muslim religion, society or culture.
On the contrary - I would say that it is as much our right as it is theirs to criticize ours... and I believe they have that right. That said, it's not much use speaking of a single Muslim religion, society and culture; Muslims have a kaleidoscope of variations in all three of those. What we here criticize isn't Muslim religion, society or culture in general - rather it is very specific aspects of it, aspects typically shared only by a (small) minority of Muslims.
No culture is perfect and without reproach. And certainly no religion. If our criticism is honest and precise, moderates will no doubt realize that and accept our perspective as a legitimate view, even if they disagree with it. Same as we would respond to theirs.
I live in Croatia, a country that emerged from the former Yugoslavia. In Yugoslavia, we had plenty of taboo topics. Things you couldn't speak of, history that had to be forgotten 'for the sake of ethnic harmony'. That was a major part of what killed Yugoslavia. Rather than ensuring peace, it was a cause for war. Don't repeat our mistakes - learn from us.
If we enforce a state of silence on everything negative associated with Islam, it might work for a while. Sure, the media might keep quiet. But people would talk. Theories would be spun and, unburdened by public scrutiny, would keep ballooning into wild tales and alleged conspiracies. The end result? Muslims in the West wouldn't be protected, they would be slaughtered. And you wouldn't see it coming until it is too late.
Don't stay silent - speak louder. Speak of the good and the bad, of the convenient and the inconvenient. Only that way will people trust you and you can make a difference for the better.
@#2044601
@Shepard SolusAfraid this shit is neither fake nor new, as a look through the archives will show.
Yes it could be real, but seeing as it is written almost as a parody of what right-wingers believe about Muslims, I really doubt it.
Shows your lack of exposure to Muslim fundies, I'm afraid. This is very much the way some of them speak. Particularly ISILites.
@#2044601
@Shepard SolusAnd even if this one were fake, there's so much worse that comes direct from major imams and other public figures of influence that this is frankly almost harmless by comparison.
Nope. Mainstream imams all oppose terrorist groups such as DAESH and al-Qaeda.
Again, shows your narrow Western focus. Yes, perhaps mainstream imams in the West oppose such groups, but in the Middle East? In Pakistan?
Not to mention that there are many groups other than the two you mentioned. While Daesh and al-Qaeda might come closest to being universally condemned by mainstream religious leaders (though what constitutes 'mainstream' is itself unclear), there are other very much reprehensible groups that are very much supported in certain communities. The Taliban. Hamas. Hezbollah. And those are just the most well-known ones.
