Quote# 126466

This is an article about why lesbians get pregnant at a higher rate than straight women.
Author seems to think lesbians don't exist.

Second, do these identities we call “gay” and “lesbian” actually exist in the way we assume they do? They certainly exist as political or social identities. But in functional reality, that seems less clear.

Glenn Stanton, public discourse 12 Comments [4/19/2017 9:37:57 AM]
Fundie Index: 4
Submitted By: Mister Spak

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Happy Atheist

I'm a dude. Dudes turn me on. Women turn me off.


4/19/2017 9:39:49 AM

Ambulance Chaser

It's not unclear at all. I recommend you read the work of Dr. Simon LeVay who found biological differences between gay and straight people.

4/19/2017 10:15:10 AM


I'd say that at least social identities exist in functional reality.

A gay man is a man who is attracted to other men.
A lesbian woman is a woman who is attracted to other women.
They both definitely exist; I know people like that.

4/19/2017 10:29:49 AM


"Functional reality", ha! You just want to know what they do and how they do it.

4/19/2017 11:40:22 AM


Nobody from Focus on the Family is an expert on "functional reality". Case closed.

4/19/2017 2:41:53 PM


Maybe lesbians experience higher rates of pregnancy because they have to plan and go out of their way (not counting rape) to become pregnant. Gay and lesbian means being attracted to the same sex, it doesn't mean infertile.

4/19/2017 8:39:36 PM

From what I've heard, lesbian teenagers in conservative areas have a much higher rate of unplanned pregnancy than straight girls because some of them have lots of reckless sex with guys in a desperate attempt to prove to themselves that they're not lesbians. It doesn't work.

I don't know about in general, though.

4/19/2017 9:45:18 PM


I have the strange feeling that the number of people trying to tell me that I don't exist is steadily increasing. I find that a little bit worrysome...

4/20/2017 3:49:10 AM

Anonymous asshole

In all honesty, the author is right if you understand identity under the more mathematical definition; people's emotional and attraction drives are much more messy than the overly simplistic categorization of 'gay' and 'straight' allow for, and it is a personal choice to override that and deny the minority feelings you have.

In this way, being straight is also just as much a fiction. It is a decision for the sake of (over?)simplification and social pandering to deny minority romantic feelings to the same gender within "straight" culture, and just as much a personal choice.

Are these choices ones people have an entitlement to make? Most certainly. But it is dishonest by any measure to pretend they are not choices.

When it comes to the physical mechanics of arousal, however, there are additional complexities. Sometimes the physical hardware itself doesn't associate strongly or at all with arousal. But that isn't, strictly speaking, a factor in being gay, straight, or anything. It just means special considerations are necessary to the sex.

I can completely understand, though how people, particularly younger people, don't believe that much; too little experience, too little exposure to society-at-large, a lack of introspective opportunity all contribute. But life really is *messier* than simple ideas like "gay" and "straight".

It's better, healthier, to just accept that the extent of what you really know of yourself is that you are an insane ape in an indifferent universe, and live honestly with whatever feelings you discover you have, to at least not deny that they exist even when you decide you aren't going to indulge them.

4/20/2017 6:26:48 AM

Doubting Thomas

Wait... lesbians... get pregnant at higher rates than straight women? Seriously, how fucked up are these idiots? I mean, they're so stupid I'm surprised they don't have to remind themselves to breathe.

4/20/2017 6:35:29 AM


They don't exist the way you think they do.

4/20/2017 6:39:12 AM

Mister Spak

If you follow the link there is a big essay full of a 150IQ version of afchief.

The claim seems to be that gay is not really real it is only a (liberal) social category. It's like Hindu castes, it's only a social convention while male/female has physical reality.

It may be an elaboration of the protestant fundie idea that gay is not something you are, it's something you do. You aren't gay until you have gay sex.

@Ambulance Chaser
When that came out the fundie response was to just sneer at it and claim it meant nothing because Levay is gay. Also you might like the whole essay. It's like afchief or obohner suddenly gained 60 IQ points and a Ph.D

That was the consensus in the 90s, although fundies never dealt with it then. Maybe they saw it as "at least they are committing normal straight sins, not abomination gay sins"".

Stanton is 25 years late to this party.

@Anonymous asshole
They're not saying it's more complicated than gay/straight, they're saying gays have no physical reality, and using the sexual orientation gray areas to claim black and white don't exist.

@Doubting Thomas
If you don't know the actual facts, assuming the fundie is lying is on the safer side of the odds. But remember if telling the truth will advance the fundie agenda, a fundie will tell the truth. See @2044357 as an example, it could be true.

4/20/2017 11:59:47 AM

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