I've had some secular fundamentalists tell me that this doesn't make the document or the nation Christian in any sense since the dating formula was simply customary. It’s what everybody did.
I respond by saying this makes the case even worse for them, since they are admitting that it was so common for the Founders to think of Jesus as Lord and His life as the turning point of all history that they had not a moment's hesitation in putting His name in our foundational document, expressing their personal allegiance to Him, and dating it from the year of His birth.
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at they had not a moment's hesitation in putting His name in our foundational document,
All right closet case - please point out specifically where Jesus name appears in any of the USA's founding documents.
And your detractor's are correct, "In the year of our Lord" was common practice for dating at the time. I bet it get's your pink frilly panties in a wad that we are changing that to:
BCE: Before Common Era
Thus removing the xtian taint from our dating annotations.
Even if all the Founding fathers were christains ( and they sure as hell werent,) we still wouldn't give a flying pig fuck, because their First Amendment, and more specifically, the Establishment clause.
*sigh*
Then I guess Fischer worships Mars, Thor, Woden, and Saturn, huh? (I know there are more, but I'm just working off the top of my head).
@Pyro
Actually, it'd be Tiw (Tyr (Nordic Mars, so close enough)), Woden (Odin), Thor (Thor), Frige (Frigg/Frigga(/Arguably Freja)), and, yes, Saturn.
"I've had some secular fundamentalists tell me"
No, because they don't exist. They're a term of propaganda invented to apply your own soiled reputation to others.
@Mister Spak
No, because they don't exist. They're a term of propaganda invented to apply your own soiled reputation to others."
That may be a hasty assumption.
Woops. Julian. Gregorian. In fact, when George Washington was a boy, the Julian calendar was still in effect in the Colonies, and the year began on April 1, while the Continent had already switched over. Eastern Orthodox countries followed the Julian calendar until the early 20th Century. Meanwhile, the best estimate of a birthdate for any historic Jesus appears to have been about 4 BC.
You know these guys have lost when they have to retreat into defending the boilerplate to make their point.
@Wyzard
Unfortunately, the whole changing AD/BC to CE/BCE only whitewashes the origins of the dating system. It's still there. I would propose using an altogether different date as the base of the calendar. Perhaps dating from 1776 due to the Enlightenment. I would also favor the founding of Rome in 753 BCE as the origin of western civilization.
Then please point out where the words 'God', 'Jesus', 'Creator' and 'Marriage' appear, Bri?
Because if the Founding Fathers were as 'Christian' as you lot claim, then they would have scattered those words around the US Constitution like confetti, would they not...?!
Why do you celebrate Pagan holidays, Mr. Fischite? [/Wiccan Jerry]
And they also worshiped Norse gods for using their names to name the days of the week, not to mention worshiping Janus by honoring his name with the first month of the year, and Julius and Augustus Caesar with their names on a couple of months as well.
@tipsyGnostalgic
"The fuck is a secular fundamentalist? "
When you are reduced to arguing your point based on nothing but the date on a document that has nothing at all to do with the contents of the document, it's probably time to acknowledge that your point is wrong.
@tipsyGnostalgic
We knock on your door, hand out blank paper, and ask if you've heard the bad news and have stopped believing in Jesus. We also invite you to not go to church with us.
When you write a contract or pass a law involving a date, you have to specify what calendar you're using for the year. Just because England and its colonies finally capitulated in 1752 and adopted the Gregorian Roman Catholic church calendar that Catholic Europe had been using as its civil calendar since the 1580's doesn't mean everyone who uses it is a Roman Catholic.
You get your weekdays from the Norse, your months from the Romans, your year from christianity, and your numbers from the Arabs. The letters of the alphabet worked their way through many cultures. Big hairy deal. We use them as they now are out of custom, not as a form of worship.
@ThatOneGuy
Ah. You're one of those "Reformed" Secular Fundamentalists. Undamned heritics!
Well, of course not. I think, however, you'll find the the One True Version - the King James Version - of the bible is also written in English. Obviously, by writing the Constitution in English, the framers were showing their allegiance to the language that god hisself speaks in heaven.
"secular fundamentalists"
Isn't that an oxymoron?
"I respond by saying this makes the case even worse for them, since they are admitting that it was so common for the Founders to think of Jesus as Lord"
How does that prove that?
Confused?
So were we! You can find all of this, and more, on Fundies Say the Darndest Things!
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