Quote# 111506

Here is a secular proof for the existence of Hell, your future home should you not repent:

1. Every natural innate human desire has a corresponding satisfying object in reality. (e.g., thirst has the object of water, hunger has the object of food, etc)

2. All humans possess a natural innate desire for objective moral justice to be satisfied.

3. Therefore, objective moral justice exists.

4. In some cases, objective moral justice is not satisfied in this lifetime. (e.g., Hitler, Stalin, Mao, unrepentant abortion "doctors," abortuary deathscorts, etc)

5. Therefore, objective moral justice is achieved in an afterlife.

6. Therefore, Hell exists.

What will it take for you to admit you were on the wrong side of the world’s worst holocaust in human history? Look in those dishes – those are the arms and legs and heads of dead babies floating there. If that is not enough to turn your heart, what is?!? What WILL it take?

WorldGoneCrazy, Christian News Network 44 Comments [8/6/2015 2:23:25 PM]
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Dan Onymous

Start with actually proving 1 then we'll go from there.

8/6/2015 2:35:37 PM


1 and 2 are both doubtful at best and necessary for the rest to follow.

8/6/2015 2:46:46 PM


Wow, that didn't make sense , at all.

8/6/2015 2:58:07 PM

Conservative Atheist

I'll give you 1 as a handicap, Mr. Crazy.
2 is false, just look at serial killers, psychopaths, and mass-murdering dictators (e.g. Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pinochet, Amin, The Kim dynasty, and more).
Since 2 is wrong, 3 does not follow.
Since 3 is wrong, 4 is vacuously true; If there's no objective moral justice, then it can't be satisfied ever.
5 is a huge leap, even if we assume everything you've said up until now is true. First you have to show that an afterlife exists.
6 is another leap. Even if there's an afterlife, who's to say it is the Christian Heaven and Hell? Moral justice could be carried out by having those who committed sin be reincarnated as insects or in the Hungry Ghost world.

And then you take a turn into the usual fundie whinging about abortion. Gone crazy indeed!

8/6/2015 3:09:55 PM

You never took a philosophy class in your life. Lógic is not what you think it is

8/6/2015 3:52:57 PM

TB Tabby

What will it take? How about you start showing some of that concern for the children who are already here? Children are starving to death in the most prosperous country in the world because of extreme wealth inequality and cuts to welfare, dying because of easily treatable illnesses because their parent chose to pray for them or use bullshit alternative medicine rather than go to the doctor, driven to suicide by bullying that is ignored by the same schools that call the SWAT Team on children with inhalers because it's drugs...but I seldom hear a pro-lifer showing concern for them. The right to life, in their eyes, begins at conception and ends at birth. Start showing a little activism for the children already here, and maybe I'll consider that you really are about protecting children and not just slut-shaming.

8/6/2015 3:53:27 PM


Bullshitbullshitbullshit, totallymadeupbullshit, morebullshit and bullshitdoublebullshit. And that's their best argument.

8/6/2015 3:56:51 PM


You must be tired after all those leaps of logic.

8/6/2015 4:13:39 PM


Other than arguing for the existence of hell instead of God, this is just a rehash of C.S. Lewis's "Argument from Desire".

8/6/2015 4:31:50 PM


Nobody guarantees you "objective moral judgment" in life. There's no reason for anyone to assume they'll get it after death. Fail.

8/6/2015 5:10:22 PM


None of the people you specifically named have committed anything resembling an infinite crime. Terrible crimes against humanity, yes. But not infinite.

Start by explaining how Hell, an infinite punishment, can be justified for finite transgressions, and we can go from there.

8/6/2015 5:18:58 PM

Thinking Allowed

That's a lot of words to prove absolutely nothing.

8/6/2015 5:21:04 PM


I possess a natural desire for a pet unicorn, where's my unicorn Crazy?

8/6/2015 5:23:48 PM

The Bible

Hey, the bible here! In most translations of me in both the Old Testament and the New Testament there is little to no mention of this "Hell" thing you speak of. Jesus may have brought up the concept in order to mock the Pharisees who were the first to invent the notion of "Hell" (it had been referred to with the term Gehenna then) and the pharisees mostly used that to control the population with threat of eternal punishment should the puny citizens do anything that displeases their rulers.

The passage I remember most about something like hell said that it "was not for humans and was not to be forever" or something along those lines.

8/6/2015 5:28:54 PM


Sadly, if you remove the moralizing, religiosity, prudery and anti-choice B.S., this is my worldview exactly.

And I feel awful to associate myself with this scumbag. There are no "Karma Houdinis" in the big cosmic afterlife scheme of things....but abortion doctors, women who get said procedure, LGBTs, non-Christians, etc. should not be lumped with the obviously Inferno-bound like Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Pot, Pinochet, Qadaffi, Hussein, Vlad The Impaler, Ted Bundy, Jimmy Savile or Fr. John Geoghan.

Matthew Shepherd, Dr. George Tiller & Leelah Alcorn are happy in Paradise.

And Inferno is a TEMPORARY punishment. It's purgatorial. It cleanses as well as punishes. Even Hitler & the other creeps will become renewed souls who are forgiven & Paradise-bound.

8/6/2015 6:01:38 PM



Produce 1 dead person that can validate your assumptions.

Life is unfair.

Your argument titrates down to, "Some people get away with horrible acts, therefore the afterlife must exist to satisfy my justice monkey."

8/6/2015 6:05:49 PM


What will it take for you to stop bullshitting everything?

8/6/2015 6:16:19 PM


I yearn for omniscience. Explain to me how to satisfy this desire.

8/6/2015 7:18:29 PM


1) Define an "objective moral justice" without saying "what god says" because that';s the most subjective morality possible.
2) You haven't proven your second premise.
3) You really haven't proven that this all leads to your god being the right one.

In my belief system, there is a corner of hell set aside for the truly lost and do you know what their punishment is? They have to experience life as every person they affected after which, if they're still unreformed, their soul is destroyed. Hitler has to experience the lives of the (roughly) eleven million people he killed. And you have to experience the life of every pregnant woman you harassed, every word, every judgmental barb you threw at her.

8/6/2015 8:07:52 PM

rubber chicken

"Every natural innate human desire has a corresponding satisfying object in reality"

Happiness ? Security ? Love ?

"All humans possess a natural innate desire for objective moral justice to be satisfied. "

Then why don't we have it ?

8/6/2015 9:56:03 PM


I want a faster-than-light ship to explore the marvels of the universe. But it does not exist and may well never exist. So, point 1 is false.
The rest goes downhill.

8/6/2015 10:40:47 PM


But ultimately, the crimes of Hitler, Stalin, and Mao were finite in scope and do not deserve infinite torture until the end of eternity (which makes you infinitely worse then all three combined).

We just have to admit that a lot about the world is evil, and it's up to us to go and fix things and banish evil as much as we can from it. Forget waiting for God or some other deity to sort shit out after the evil being in question dies in office or whatever, why doesn't he just sort it out now?

Oh, never mind, this is a bog-standard anti-abortion rant, move along.

8/6/2015 11:15:36 PM


Fuck that was stupid

8/6/2015 11:21:23 PM


1. What is the satisfying object of sexual desire?
2. No, most sane human beings realize that moral justice changes a bit with the situation.
3. No, it doesn't.
4. I'd say that objective moral justice is never satisfied in this lifetime. (What about unrepentant anti-vaxxers and/or anti-Obamacare people?)
5. There is no evidence for an afterlife.
6. No, it doesn't.

It will take solid, verifiable scientific evidence. What was the worst holocaust; spontaneous abortions? The extermination of the Native Americans? The Flood?

Most aborted embryos don't have arms or legs yet; they're just a head-tail thingy with bulbs that will soon become arms and legs.

What will it take for you to engage in born children instead, in child poverty, children whose parents can't afford medical care for them, children who don't have access to clean water, etc? What WILL it take?

8/7/2015 2:09:25 AM


And he was doing so well until he got to the fourth word.

8/7/2015 2:16:05 AM

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