Quote# 136891There is nothing inherently harmful or immoral about having sex with children CMV
There are a number of arguments used by proponents of the prevailing cultural mythology on the subject:
1. Children are psychologically damaged by sexual activity
Sex is an inherently pleasurable activity- the claim that children are inherently "harmed" or "traumatized" by sex is demonstrably false, supported by no scientific research, and is essentially absurd, as children are not asexual (a point I will address later).
"The self-reported effects data contradict the conclusions or implications presented in previous literature reviews that harmful effects stemming from CSA are pervasive and intense in the population of persons with this experience. Baker and Duncan (1985) found that, although some respondents reported permanent harm stemming from their CSA experiences (4% of males and 13% of females), the overwhelming majority did not (96% of males and 87% of females). Severe or intense harm would be expected to linger into adulthood, but this did not occur for most respondents in this national sample, according to their self-reports, contradicting the conclusion or implication of intense harm stemming from CSA in the typical case. Meta-analyses of CSA-adjustment relations from the five national studies that reported results of adjustment measures revealed a consistent pattern: SA respondents were less well adjusted than control respondents. Importantly, however, the size of this difference (i.e., effect size) was consistently small in the case of both males and females. The unbiased effect size estimate for males and females combined was ru = .08, which indicates that CSA, assuming that it was responsible for the adjustment difference between SA and control respondents, did not produce intense problems on average."
Rind, Bruce & Tromovitch, Philip (1997). "A meta-analytic review of findings from national samples on psychological correlates of child sexual abuse," Journal of Sex Research, 34, 237-255.
The Rind meta-analysis is peer-reviewed, and its conclusion has not been discredited to date.
Often, when psychological damage does occur, it is not the result of the act itself, but rather the result of society's reaction to it:
Nelson's relationship marked "the happiest period of [her] life." "When I was a child I experienced an ongoing incestuous relationship that seemed to me to be caring and beneficial in nature. There were love and healthy self-actualization in what I perceived to be a safe environment. Suddenly one day I discerned from playground talk at school that what I was doing might be "bad". Fearing that I might, indeed, be a "bad" person, I went to my mother for reassurance. The ensuing traumatic incidents of that day inaugurated a 30-year period of psychological and emotional dysfunction that reduced family communication to mere utilitarian process and established severe limits on my subsequent developmental journey."
Sexologist Joan A. Nelson in Children and Sex, on her relationship with an adult cousin at 8 years of age December, 1981
In other words, if the prevailing belief was not that having sex as a child is the worst thing that could possibly happen, psychological issues stemming from childhood sexual experience would lessen drastically.
2. Children are essentially asexual
This is false. The orgasmic reflex develops in the womb:
"We recently observed a female fetus at 32 weeks' gestation touching the vulva with the fingers of the right hand. The caressing movements were centered primarily on the region of the clitoris. Movements stopped after 30 to 40 seconds and started again after a few minutes. Furthermore, these slight touches were repeated and were associated with short, rapid movements of pelvis and legs. After another break, in addition to this behavior, the fetus contracted the muscles of the trunk and limbs, and then clonicotonic movements of the whole body followed. Finally, she relaxed and rested.
We observed this behavior for about 20 minutes. The mother was an active and interested witness, conversing with observers about her child's experience.
Evidence of male fetuses' excitement reflex in utero, such as erection or ?masturbation” movements, has been previously reported.
The current observation seems to show not only that the excitement reflex can be evoked in female fetuses at the third trimester of gestation but also that the orgasmic reflex can be elicited during intrauterine life. This would agree with the physiologic features of female sexuality: The female sexual response is separate from reproductive functions and doesn't need a full sexual maturity to be explicit."
Giorgi, Giorgio, and Siccardi, Marco (1996). "Ultrasonographic observation of a female fetus' sexual behavior in utero," American Journal of Obstetrics and Gynecology, 175, 3(1, part 1), 753.
"In a 1999 study of undergraduate students, 5.2% of females and 12.8% of males reported having engaged in sex play with their peers involving genital contact before elementary school, and that 1.3% of girls and 4.0% of boys had engaged in sex play involving anal/genital insertion (with objects or fingers) or oral-genital intercourse before elementary school. By the end of elementary school, the numbers increased to 29.2% for females and 32.9% for males for genital contact and 12.3 for girls and 10.1% for boys for insertion or oral sex. Very little pressure and almost no coercion were reported."
Reynolds, M.A., Herbenick, D. L., & Bancroft, J. (2003). The nature of childhood sexual experiences: Two studies 50 years apart. In J. Bancroft (Ed.), Sexual Development in Childhood (pp. 134-155). Indiana: Indiana University Press.
If children masturbate, orgasm, and have sex with each other, it is absurd to claim they are asexual.
3. Children cannot consent, and therefore having sex with children is rape, and we all know rape is harmful and immoral
Consent refers to the provision of agreement- if children are capable of initiating sexual activity, it is nonsensical to claim they cannot consent to it.
For example, in the animal kingdom, which has no taboo on childhood sexuality, sex between adult and children is common:
"Both adult males and females interact sexually with adolescents and juveniles (three-to-nine-year-olds). In fact, young females go through a five-to-six-year period sometimes referred to as ADOLESCENT STERILITY (although no pathology is involved) during which they actively participate in heterosexual mating (often with adults) but never get pregnant. Sexual behavior between adults and infants of both sexes is common - about a third of the time it is initiated by the infant and may involve genital rubbing and full copulatory postures (including penetration of an adult female by a male infant). (Biological Exuberance - 274)
Who is raping whom when the infant initiate sexual activity? Does the infant rape itself or does the adult rape the infant by not denying it sexual gratification?
3a. Children lack the ability to make informed consent
Sex is not some kind of complex and incomprehensible activity that requires a lot of knowledge to preform correctly- it is one of the simplest things in existence. Animals surely don't "understand" what sex is, yet it would be absurd to say all sex between animals is harmful or immoral.
5. This thread is disgusting and so are you.
This is not an argument.
Note that even though there is nothing inherently harmful about having sex with children, in our sex-negative culture, it very often is- see Joan A Nelson's quote above for an example. The harm did not come about from the sex itself, but from society's reaction to it- but regardless, it is still grossly immoral to risk ruining a child's life for the sake of an orgasm, even if the damage comes from iatrogenic sources.
So I'm not saying it's OK to have sex with children in this day and age- it most certainly is not. But the only reason it isn't is because of society's hysterical, unscientific, and maladaptive attitude towards this subject- if this were different, I see no reason why engaging in a harmless and mutually pleasurable activity with a child would be either harmful or immoral.
Svarog123, Reddit 2 Comments
[3/10/2018 9:28:49 AM]
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