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Quote# 3850

I have EXCUSED no one's death. I have only said that sometimes our choices in life can lead to our destruction...

sweetkitty, Christian Forums 2 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 0
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 3857

Actually, The blacks and Chinese have more respect than Christians do.

Fully Cooly, Christian Forums 10 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 0
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 124225

I’ll say this again. I’m a Behavioral Therapist for children with autism and much of this information is highly inaccurate.

Every single one of the parents that I work with love their kids so much. They listen to them, they are kind to them, and they treat them like REAL PEOPLE. They listen to them when they say they’re sad. They comfort them and love them and care for them just like the do with their other kids. The parents I’ve seen care about their kids possibly more than any other parent I’ve ever seen (including parents with neurotypical children). These parents are willing to do whatever it takes to make their children be their unique selves and 100% HAPPY with themselves as well.

ABA therapy doesn’t tell kids to look happy when they’re sad inside, it teaches them FUNCTIONAL communication. Aka saying “I’m sad because…” rather than screaming incoherently. It teaches them to communicate with people by verbalizing their emotions rather than acting them out in forms of stereotypic behavior (tantrums, self injurious behavior, elopement, etc).

And for your source about the JRC. Those places are terrible. THOSE places are shit. They HAVE tortured people with disabilities. But there are companies and organizations that have paired together with places like the JRC that you SHOULD avoid.

The link to the people who have experienced ABA therapy MOST LIKELY experienced it from those places similar to JRC.

I have NEVER restrained a child. I am NOT allowed to restrain a child (with the exception of emergency situations like a child is about to run into a street or something). I do NOT teach my kids to hate themselves. I do NOT believe in negative reinforcers. I have NOT ONCE hit, yelled at, verbally abused, physically abused, emotionally abused or even electrocuted any of my kids.

I have to shadow one of my clients at his school and his teachers are completely rude and treat him like a literal piece of shit. But you know what happens when they’re rude to MY client?? I call them the fuck out for it. I tell them that they wouldn’t say rude shit like that to their other kids, so why this one? I make SURE that people treat my kids LKE REAL PEOPLE. And if ANYONE dares to even think about disrespecting any of my clients they will definitely be hearing it from me.

I love EVERY SINGLE one of my clients like they are my own children. I would literally risk my life to save theirs if the situation ever occurred. I can’t believe that this post is going around spreading information like this. It literally hurts me to believe that people think I ELECTROCUTE my kiddos.

Yes there are really REALLY shitty places that do evil things to people with disabilities.

But there are places that take care of them and love them as well.

OP, I am not trying to speak for you. I believe that your voice SHOULD be heard. But please be specific and do no generalize the therapy as a whole. Call out places like the JRC, but do not blame it on ABA. Speak about your experiences and WHICH SPECIFIC places other autistic effected families should avoid. But also, please do some research and spread information about places that are beneficial to kids with autism.

ABA is not bad. The way certain places use it are.

All right, here we go again. Warning: Shit’s gonna get real and pretty dark here. TW for abuse and rape.

First: “much of this information is highly inaccurate.” Citation sorely fucking needed. I sourced all of my shit in depth; exactly which of these sources are you claiming is lying, and on what points?

Second: Either you live in a blessed land of fairies and unicorns, or you’re making shit up. It is the extremely painful experience of literally thousands of auties - no small number of which have spoken about it at length - that people are only willing to listen to us when we speak in ways that they are comfortable with, expressing thoughts and feelings that they are comfortable with. This all too often includes our parents. Hell, “Autism Parent” is a fucking meme in autistic culture.

The fact that you don’t know this speaks volumes about your willingness to actually listen to us.

Third: I’m a little less concerned with what any individual parent - hell, what any individual therapist - might think than I am with the foundation and structures of the practice. And guess what? That foundation is in a view that we are not people. (Did you even click the links?) It is built on abusing children into feigning normalcy. The seed of modern ABA practice was literally the same doctor bringing the same mindset to the “problems” of “making auties into Real People” and “making gay and bi boys and trans girls into Real Men.”

It has, as its explicit stated goal, the elimination of behaviours deemed “unsightly.” Do I need to quote the fucking defining papers? You say “verbalizing rather than stereotypic behaviour,” and we hear “force you to communicate in our language, no matter how difficult that is for you, instead of taking the time to learn yours.” We hear “prevent us from stimming, no matter how important that is to us as a regulatory tool.” We hear “Quiet hands.” You want to know why places like the JRC happen and keep happening? Why this is a huge, widespread fucking problem? It is because one of the core tenets of ABA is that you do not and will not listen to us unless we communicate in the ways you deem fit. And that doesn’t just mean “use your words,” it very often means “tell us what we want to hear.”

You do not know whether you are teaching your kids to hate themselves. You do not and cannot know that, because what ABA teaches us is how to recognize and present the expected signs regardless of what is happening in our heads. What it teaches us is how to mask and cover like abuse victims. And you should take a really fucking good look at why that might be.

You say “There are ABA centers that love their patients and take care of them.” You say “I love every single client like they are my own children.”

I hear my mother, desperately trying to make sure I would grow up happy in a world full of cruel people, telling me not to fidget, glancing around to see if people are giving us That Look again. I hear “something is wrong with your body language; hide it Or Else.”

I hear my mother, my loving mother who is trying to take care of me, telling me that I need to stop talking about my special interests because I’m boring people. I hear “Nobody cares what you have to say.”

I hear my mother, trying to keep me from having problems, telling me it can’t possibly be that bright and I need to take my sunglasses off or people will make fun of me. I hear “Your pain is less important than keeping up appearances, and literally anyone and everyone will punish you if you don’t comply.”

I hear my mother, my sweet loving mother who wants what’s best for her child, going about her business as though everything is perfectly normal while I’m dying inside, because I no longer have any way to tell her what a hellscape my head has become. My ways of conveying this are Unacceptable and Lashing Out, not Communication, and I might have been taught the words for “I’m sad,” but not for “Everything is Too Much” or “nothing makes me happy any more” or “I hate myself and I don’t want to.” Eventually, she will see the scars left by what coping methods I have. She will put me into well-intentioned but misguided psychiatric care. They will listen to what their forms tell them over what I am saying - because I still don’t have the words - and medicate me into a suicide attempt. This will result in traumatic institutionalization, and I will restructure my entire life and personality around the core tenet of “never let anyone see the pain or they will hurt you worse.” I now have people who will provide what comfort I need when I need it on my terms - but they still have to learn to read from the tiny cracks in my many, many masks, because over 90% of the time I still cannot bring myself to say “I need help.”

I hear my mother, speaking over me countless times without noticing, teaching me that she (as the Authority Figure) always knows best even when it makes no sense to me. I hear “You just don’t know any better; what the authority figure says is correct.” Later, when authority figures blame me for basically being weird enough to get beaten, I learn that violence is an acceptable response to failure to conform and comply. When my rapist tells me that a vague unspecified They will hurt him if I don’t do what he says (even though it feels Wrong and Bad), I believe him, because this is the world I have come to know.

I hear my mother today, so many years later, responding to any attempt to explain any of this by crying and telling me what a horrible parent she was, and lamenting how she could have done things differently If She’d Only Known. But she never listened.

I hear myself consoling her, reassuring her that what she did to me wasn’t so bad, that she acted out of love using he tools and information she had. Because by now I have well and truly learned that my pain will never matter as much as anybody else’s.

That is what I hear when you claim to love your clients as your own children. And while the details of my story might be unique, the general arc of it is not. That is what thousands of us are hearing. We are hearing all the people who claimed to love us over the years, bending and sawing and chipping and breaking us so we fit into an Acceptable Mold.

And when you tell me that it is our fucking job to find ABA centers that are somehow - despite the entire thrust of ABA - not doing this, and spread the word about them instead of about the countless places that have done this to us?

Well, that’s an outright demand for “Hey, it’s not so bad. You’re doing the best you can with the tools you have.” It is yet another in the endless series of demands faced by autistic people - say what I want, not what matters to you. It is an outright and explicit prioritization of the appearances and reputations of allistic people over the ongoing pain of autistic people. It is the latest chapter in the story I just told.

It is not our job to reform ABA. It is yours. Autistic people are not the ones responsible for how allistic people treat us. My voice is my own, and I will speak the truths I want to speak - not the kind, soothing lies that absolve you of all responsibility to do better.

wetwareproblem, tumblr 8 Comments [2/4/2017 11:41:26 AM]
Fundie Index: 4
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 124222

I never cease to be frustrated by anti-self-dxers, and how they seem to have literally never heard of someone like me - someone who is an adult, has consulted to the best of their ability including speaking with professionals without the authority to enter a diagnosis, cannot under any circumstances get a diagnosis, because I will (not can, but absolutely 100% certainty fucking will) lose important legal rights such as access to my fucking child, and a huge amount of my trauma centers around institutionalization and the fear of going back.

These circumstances are… really not that uncommon among self dx folks?

But sure it’s all just kids making shit up for attention

Yyyyyyeahhhhh somehow I REALLY doubt that you’d lose your kid if you got a professional diagnosis. On the contrary, if you keep self-diagnosing, you probably WILL lose your kid.
Not to mention you could self-Dx yourself wrong, and guess what? It could be something totally different and ten times more/less harmful.

When I wrote this, it was a couple weeks after the highest court in my province put two kids in foster care because their parents were autistic, and that was deemed sufficiently dangerous to warrant removal.

And, y'know, I was almost killed by professional misdiagnosis, something it’s taken me the better part of twenty years to get past in any way, and which still haunts my nightmares.

But, y'know, I highly doubt real, lived experiences matter more than your strawmen. So whatever.

Yyyyyyeahhhhh somehow I REALLY doubt that you’d lose your kid if you got a professional diagnosis. On the contrary, if you keep self-diagnosing, you probably WILL lose your kid.
Not to mention you could self-Dx yourself wrong, and guess what? It could be something totally different and ten times more/less harmful.

Me: “Professional DX could cost me my child.”
Some asshole: “Doubt it.”
You: “That dude’s right.”
Me: “That literally happened to people, in my city, just before I said that.”
You: “But that was because of professional diagnosis! Go see a doctor!”

Like. Do you even logic? You’re literally saying that an incident in which people had their kids taken away on the basis of a professional diagnosis shouldn’t count as a reason not to be professionally diagnosed.

You: “Self-dx could be harmful, maybe! I can’t point to any actual cases of this happening, but this is my theory.”
Me: “Here in the real world, professional dx lead to me being mismedicated, attempting suicide, and going through the most traumatic experience of my life. But I’m sure that doesn’t matter against your hypothetical dangers of self-diagnosis.”
You: “That totally wasn’t a strawman! Go see a doctor!”

Like. Yeah. That was fucking traumatic as shit. Yes, I’m in therapy that’s specifically helping me to address it. And yes, my therapist has extremely strict instructions to never refer me to anybody with diagnostic authority - a policy she understands, accepts, and supports. How am I gonna get medication without a diagnosis? I’m not. I’m gonna have to cope using what non-medicinal tools are available to me. Because that’s how I keep my child and my life and my freedom.

But self-diagnosis is so incredibly harmful! I should totally trust a stranger on the Internet about my mental health needs, rather than myself and my actual fucking therapist, right?

As for the “you can’t rely on yourself” shit: That is the literal, textbook definition of a strawman. It’s one you fucks always trot out, and I’ve literally never seen a single case of it being true. Self-diagnosis is generally an intensive process, involving months of research, talking to people who have the condition, seeing how relatable their experiences are to you, trying some of their coping methods and (in my case, because I was incredibly lucky) consulting both officially and unofficially with people who work professionally with patients in a non-diagnosing and non-prescribing capacity.

Finally: Even if I were to take your advice, even though why should I… Who’s gonna cough up the $2000? Because I’m sure as fuck not taking it out of my kid’s mouth. Or mine.

Think for half a fucking second about this before you condescend to me again. And maybe don’t compare an autie to a movement that would rather their children die than grow up like her?

wetwareproblem, tumblr 16 Comments [2/4/2017 2:37:46 PM]
Fundie Index: 3
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 124223

Since conversion therapy is looming in everyone’s consciousness right now:

This is your regular reminder that ABA, the generally-recommended therapy for autistic children, is literally conversion therapy with an extra dose of “auties aren’t even real people” thrown in for good measure. It was conceived by the same people, from the same research, for the same ends: To brutalize and torture children into a narrow range of “acceptable” behaviour.

And it is considered totally legitimate and valid and even preferred by the overwhelming majority of the medical industry.

Do not leave disabled people out of your activism

wetwareproblem, tumblr 18 Comments [2/4/2017 2:38:10 PM]
Fundie Index: 1
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 124218

Sluts are only slutty for Chad. Sex is a resource women give out to get what they want.

EconomicsofSex, /r/incels 15 Comments [2/4/2017 10:34:10 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 3826

Not many things upset me on these forums..but the LIE that homosexual activists like to bandy about that any relationship in the Bible was a homosexual one really gets under my skin. It's not enough that you people want to legitimize a perverse behavior in the eyes of the world..it's not enough that you have to inudate our children with your sick thinking every day...you have to take what is Holy and good to us and try and pervert that.

sweetkitty, Christian Forums 6 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 2
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 124186

Matthew 5:28 says not to lust after a woman or else it is adultery, and Leviticus 20:10 says that the penalty for adultery is death. It is important to know that hugging, kissing, and hand holding are considered sexual acts, and thus are prohibited by God until marriage and even within marriage are only to be done sparingly behind closed doors.

Elvis is King, RationalWiki 23 Comments [2/2/2017 2:19:52 PM]
Fundie Index: 10
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 124211

Logic is defined as....

1. the science that investigates the principles governing correct or reliable inference.

2.a particular method of reasoning or argumentation:We were unable to follow his logic.

3.the system or principles of reasoning applicable to any branch of knowledge or study.

4.reason or sound judgment, as in utterances or actions:There wasn't much logic in her move.

5.convincing forcefulness; inexorable truth or persuasiveness:

logic is not just about mathematics....2+2=4 etc. That is only one specific type of logic.

Check out


Logic is related to culture, background and whatever seems reasonable at that time, in that social culture, with that knowledge and in that situation. For example....in a culture which is largely religious...it would be very logical to suppose that a God created the world. Logically there is no other explanation at all. To argue that the universe got generated by chance...would be very illogical and unreasonable.

In an atheist culture it would be logical to assume that some natural law generated the universe.

Sriram, Religion and Ethics 8 Comments [2/4/2017 10:33:36 AM]
Fundie Index: 8
Submitted By: Nearly Sane
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 124187

God intended procreation to be simply something that was done, much like with animals. Satan, however, convinced Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit and Eve convinced Adam to eat of it. Thus, original sin was born, and immediately after the sin was committed, Adam and Eve knew good and evil much like God. The first thing that happened was that they became ashamed of their nakedness, and God gave them a covering. This shows that they then knew the evils of lust, and the ramifications it would have on them. A lust for the flesh is punishable by death according to God (Leviticus 20:10) and Christ condemns it (Matthew 5:28) and Paul says it is better for a man not to marry and abide as Christ did. (I Corinthians 7:8) Despite all of these Scriptures condemning this unholy abomination, humanity has degenerated to the point that lust is not only acceptable but encouraged in the public sphere. Self image and worth has become based on nothing more than a contest of personal appearance, and people are so enamored in such vile sin that they will openly fornicate and talk of intentions to fornicate, thus bringing back the evil cities of Sodom and Gomorrah worldwide. They say that it is perfectly normal and natural, but this is a lie of Satan.

Elvis is King, RationalWiki 14 Comments [2/2/2017 2:19:55 PM]
Fundie Index: 6
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 124216

It's ridiculous how milimeters of bone literally determine so much in your life

Sounds ridiculous, sounds aspie, sound silly, still demonstrated to be true. A literal difference in MILIMETERS of bone in your face measurements can be night and day on how life treats you.

Not even talking about only dating. All social situations, job prospects, getting promotions on said jobs, less harsh and less often punishments by the law, less chance of bullying, more love from parents, more respect from everyone...

Completely different lives based on less than a cm in face measurements. Completely different lives determined at birth.

This is way more appartent in stories with brothers in which one of them was born good looking and the other not. Same upbringing, same schools usually, same social circles yet totally different lives.

It's so enraging.

Zyrros, /r/incels 8 Comments [2/4/2017 10:34:01 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
Submitted By: Pharaoh Bastethotep
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 3829

But up to now all you seem interested in is to obtain knowledge. Not your fault I am sure, that is a lot the way our education system works in this country.

JohnR7, Christian Forums 17 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 6
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 2806

[i][In a discussion about pornography][/i]Why do we even need to draw nudes in the first place? We don't.

Susan, Christian Forums 24 Comments [4/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 2
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 124213

Its as plain as the nose on one’s face that feminism is based ENTIRELY on bitter sexual jealousy and nothing else. It’s a ‘no brainer’.
The only possible reason I might have for doubting this simple fact about women (particularly when considering or discussing overweight, over 35 y/o FRUMPS), is that it seems that only you, me, Eric, Evilwhitemaleempire, Inclined Reader and a few more that could easily be counted on my fingers, out of about 4,000,000,000 other men, seem sure of this fact…
Is it possible therefore, that such a tiny minority of us could be wrong?…

Not at all!

Alan Vaughn, Resisting the Rape of the Male – Sex Positive Men's Rights 7 Comments [2/4/2017 9:20:57 AM]
Fundie Index: 4
Submitted By: Xavier
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 16023

If we are descendant from apes, how come apes are still around?

I know this question has been asked several times, and I ask it again only because it's a valid question, which evolutionists still haven't answered, other than with a canned, ready-made non-direct response.

stultorum, Free Republic 68 Comments [10/16/2006 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 3
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 3782

There is no question that [Stephen] Hawking's is a brillant man. The question then is, did he use what God gave him to honor or glorify God or not? Most people I believe would say that Hawking's does nothing to honor God... No one objects to Hawking's thinking. Nor do they think his ourward appearance has any connection to his thinking. But that is not what the Bible says: 'as a man thinketh in his heart, so is he'.

JohnR7, Christian Forums 7 Comments [8/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 3825

I didn’t read what you’ve said in this forum cause I’m sure that it is all non-sense. Could anyone prove that there is no God, could you? NEVER.

Sonic, PlanetWisdom 14 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 6
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 3792

That is how it came to be in the place of God as the source of wisdom and knowledge. Just as the Children of Israel fashioned a golden calf saying this is the god that delivered you out of Egypt, [info <a href="http://www.princeton.edu/~his291/Experimentum_Crucis.html">here</a>--Ed.] is given the credit for leading Western Civilization out of the Dark Ages.

Oholiab, Christian Forums 3 Comments [8/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 3837

But on the way back to the motel, the kids did not fall asleep as we expected. They kept chattering incessently... they kept saying the word 'motel'... everytime they said it, I got butterflies in my stomach... We decided the Lord was trying to communicate something to us, so we... ended up paying the 150 for that nice hotel in the city. I don't know what the Lord saved us from. But we are convinced that He most likely saved our lives that night.

valerie, Rapture Ready 14 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 8
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 3848

I NEVER said she deserved to be slain. I said her lifestyle contributed to her being killed.

sweetkitty, Christian Forums 4 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 3
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 124201

Republican lawmakers in Arkansas have granted preliminary approval to a bill apparently aimed at Sharia, or Islamic law, after passing a law that would allow fathers and parents to block a woman from having an abortion.

State Rep. Brandt Smith (R-Jonesboro) introduced HB 1041, which won approval Thursday from a House judiciary committee, to “American laws for American courts,” reported the Arkansas Times.

He claims the measure was not specifically aimed at Sharia law, although it’s similar to legislation introduced in other states based on the conspiracy theory that Islamic law is creeping into the American legal system.

Smith also justified his bill to reporters by citing a custody case involving a man from the Middle East who based his claims on Sharia law and then fled the country, and the lawmaker shared the same story when presenting his legislation on the statehouse floor.

HB 1041 voids court rulings based on foreign laws that do not grant “fundamental rights, liberties, and privileges granted under the Arkansas Constitution or the United States Constitution” — such as due process, equal protection, freedom of religion and speech and press, the right to privacy, the right to bear arms and the right to marry.

Smith’s bill narrowly defines marriage under the Arkansas constitution, which specifically bans same-sex unions but was overturned by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2015.

After moving out of committee, Smith’s measure will go up for a vote before the full House, which recently passed anti-abortion legislation that’s stricter than laws in some Muslim nations.

Gov. Asa Hutchinson signed Arkansas Act 45 into law last week banning one of the safest and most common abortion procedures in the second and third trimesters and allowing family members to block abortions by suing health care providers.

The measure, which was signed into law less than two months after its introduction, is nearly identical to laws passed in Mississippi and Louisiana, and similar bans in Kansas, Oklahoma and Alabama have not yet been implemented until legal challenges have been resolved.

The Arkansas law makes no exception for rape or incest, and it allows a woman’s spouse or parent to sue abortion providers to stop pregnancies from being terminated.

The Daily Beast reported the law could potentially allow a fetus’s father to block an abortion through lawsuit — even in cases of spousal rape or incest, according to abortion rights activists.

Islamic law generally forbids abortion, although some Muslim legal scholars and religious leaders make exceptions for rape and incest in the first 120 days of pregnancy.

Some Muslim religious leaders granted exceptions to Algerian and Bosnian women raped during times of war, and an Egyptian sheikh approved a draft law permitting women to abort pregnancies that were the result of rape.

Arkansas GOP, Raw Story 9 Comments [2/3/2017 3:49:12 PM]
Fundie Index: 7
Submitted By: Demon Duck of Doom
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 3817

The Word of My God is never wrong. If it is in the Holy Bible, than it is true. Ain't [no way] any of its wrong. The Bible and its prophecies are 100% true.

SmileyMike, Rapture Ready 16 Comments [9/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 4
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 3801

I 'know' [the Bible is true] because I am here and I am living. There is no way in heck something as complex as a human was created by a big bang (no one knows were the matter for that came from), Abiogenesis (big deal, they made amino acids), and random mutations (which are 99.9% of the time harmful). Go to AnwersInGenesis.org. They are the leading Creationist scientists and their site is full of evidance.

1SuprJesusFreak, Kyle Givler Teens' Board 23 Comments [8/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 3
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 3806

[Replying to 'You should be ashamed']Why, you believe Ron Wyatt's 'discoveries' are the real thing?

Hughes, Rapture Ready 2 Comments [8/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 1
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 3775

Really?? Where are God's commands against slavery? Would you like a list of God's commands against fornication? Do you have room on your hard drive?

PIANOMANONE, Parallax Christian Discussion 6 Comments [8/1/2003 12:00:00 AM]
Fundie Index: 2
WTF?! || meh
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