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Quote# 111963

Target has announced it’s progressing with the times and getting rid of gender-based references throughout it’s stores. Glenn took Target to task on radio Friday with a very common sense argument he’s willing to stand up and say boldly, no matter what anybody says. “You know what? A guy is a guy and a girl is girl. And that’s all there is to it,” Glenn said. In a corporate update released last week, Target reported: We heard you, and we agree. Right now, our teams are working across the store to identify areas where we can phase out gender-based signage to help strike a better balance. For example, in the kids’ Bedding area, signs will no longer feature suggestions for boys or girls, just kids. In the Toys aisles, we’ll also remove reference to gender, including the use of pink, blue, yellow or green paper on the back walls of our shelves. You’ll see these changes start to happen over the next few months. We thank guests all the time for challenging us to get better at what we do and take the shopping trip to new levels. To help give voice to what many people are feeling about the “new levels” Target is striving for, Glenn read aloud from an opinion piece by Matt Walsh. I won’t attempt to defend every gender stereotype or “gender norm,” but I do subscribe to the radical theory that boys and girls are different and distinct from one another in complex, concrete, and important ways, and many of the dreaded “norms” are, well, normal and biological. It is precisely our role as parents to help our kids “conform” to their gender, to their identity, and grow from boys and girls into well adjusted, confident masculine men and feminine women.

Glenn Beck, GlennBeck.com 91 Comments [8/18/2015 3:18:06 AM]
Fundie Index: 17
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 112506

In the other case where the FFRF wants the sheriff to take down the decal "blessed are the peacemakers." the FFRF claimed that taxpayers should not have to pay for the decals and now someone has donated decals to another sheriff dept. and the FFRF says it's unconstitutional and of course they can't use the taxpayer excuse since these are donated decals, these folks will use whatever they can to try to remove God. God is Creator of all and the earth belongs to Him and you will lose for you cannot remove Him, He may let you have your way for a bit but that is to judge you later on for your evil acts against Him, He is unmovable, you are and will find this out...I love Jesus!

Josey, Christian News Network 14 Comments [9/4/2015 3:35:20 AM]
Fundie Index: 5
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 112505

One this is for sure, it is really fun trying to understand the universe around us. I love cosmology and though we humans will never even come close to understanding all things it is an incredible thing to try. The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.

D Sims, Christian News Network 17 Comments [9/4/2015 3:26:10 AM]
Fundie Index: -16
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 112514

My husband and our oldest son went to help out another Christian man. He just got out of prison, having been sent there for several months, due to stealing, threatening someone, and resisting arrest. He was drunk at the time.

Now, his first day out, he needed help in moving his stuff to his new place.

When they arrived at the place of this man’s old home, they found the place full of evil statues and other cursed items.

My son sensed the deep evil of the place; he sensed that witches had been there.

He struggled to complete the work, and asked his father if he could stop, for the spirits he sensed in the place was overwhelming for him. Alas, his father refused him, so he had to continue. He did the best he could, with his heart crying out from all the pain from the evil in the place.

When he arrived home, I could clearly see that he had been affected by them. He told me he had a spiritually horrible day, and that he had came from a place that reminded him of hell. Immediately I stopped what I was doing, and went to go bless him with the blessed olive oil. I cast out the demons from him, and asked the Lord to fill him with His peace.

The wildness and horror that had been there before slowly left his eyes, and he calmed back down.

I then went to go bless my husband.

He seemed angry at all the fuss, and did not understand what the big deal was.

My husband knew the procedure well, but this time seemed resentful of it having to take place. (I sensed he wanted to argue instead.)

I got the blessed olive oil, and went to make the sign of the cross at the base of his throat like I have done so many times before, but this time, as soon as the blessed olive oil and my finger touched his skin, I felt the demons come rushing out of him, to fly through me.

Anger, GREAT violence, disgusting filth, perversion, unrelenting sorrow, blackness, secrecy, fear, pagan idol worship, (that came from someone’s past family demons,) sorcery, divining, and two principality demons that came from the land that they had been on.

Thirteen demons that I could name.

I barely finished casting them out from him, for I was in shock at what had just happened. Never before had the demons from within another, come rushing out to fly through me. I stood there, looking at my husband, and I could tell that the demons had indeed left him, for the look in his eyes were back to normal, and the expression in his face was one of gentle remorse and concern.

But then I suddenly realized, that not all had gone through me. Some had gone in and remained.

I can’t even begin to fully describe such a horrible feeling; knowing that there were such filthy demons in me. Filthy, and unrelenting sorrow, were the demons that had remained in me.

The filthy one is what I sensed first; it made me want to go take a shower so I could scrub it off of me. It was truly horrible. Only a few times before, had I sensed such demons. Of those times, they always came from practicing Satanists or illuminati witches. But never before did I have one attack me.

Then the demon of unrelenting sorrow hit me next, and I began to cry in earnest.

I ran out of the room, and asked one of my other kids (the one who can see so clearly into that unseen world,) to please come and bless me. He had heard of what had happened, and came immediately. He then blessed me. As soon as his finger touched me with the blessed olive oil on it, the two demons of filth and unrelenting sorrow left me. This time, my crying turned to one of great relief, and I explained what had happened. I then asked him if the demons were now gone, or if they had gone into him. He said that they were now gone, and that they had not troubled him.

Dreams of Dunamis, Dreams of Dunamis 18 Comments [9/4/2015 6:04:37 PM]
Fundie Index: 11
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 112504

Scientists don't have a clue how the universe was created (formed). They are like children in a sandbox marveling over the color of sand and how it reacts to water. Those who trust in science, trust in incomplete and false knowledge. Only through Faith can we see and understand how the universe was created. Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the Word of God, Jesus (the) Christ.

Through the Word of God the universe was created, and by the Word of God it remains. By the Word of God it will be changed, and only those who know Jesus (the) Christ will be transformed to live in the New Heavens and New Earth.

Follow Jesus, find Salvation.

FoJC_Forever, Christian News Network 21 Comments [9/4/2015 3:25:55 AM]
Fundie Index: 16
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 112503

How could Einstein know how God created the heavens and the earth in the beginning? The best minds in academia are still struggling to reconcile Einstein's theories with observations of the real universe, which is the point of this article. While they work on this, we can take time to consider the eyewitness account which says "In the beginning God created". It even says that light is a fundamental concept, much as you think that its quantization is more fundamental than the light itself.
(And yes, I know you mean "Einstein" figuratively ... there is so much stupid here, I feel I need to point this out.)

Martin Smit, Christian News Network 17 Comments [9/4/2015 3:25:52 AM]
Fundie Index: 10
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 112502

How? Praying and offering a choice to follow God and have everlasting peace ?That's hardly pushing anything. Maybe it's the constant judging? Only God is the final judge on your life. Any "Christian" that tells you otherwise is not walking in the truth. Still no pushing of anything. When one says"No, I will not follow in your teaching of fairy tales and made up Gods and I will not bow and pray" neither our government, football coaches/chaplains, or other power of authority has ever punished him/her. Before you get up in arms and start trolling with responses, let me clarify that statement. As true followers of Christ, we accept anyone regardless of their beliefs or non beliefs. If you want to believe in thor, odin and rainbow pooping fairies then by all means that's your prerogative. We WILL NOT judge you for it. Instead we will present our beliefs, share our witness testimony to what events led us to God and the saving grace God has given us. We are the first to call ourselves hypocrites before atheists used them in arguments. Why? because we are sinners saved by Grace. Our fleshly bodies will pay the price of sin and our souls will go to heaven. With that knowledge, we are comfortable in sharing it with others in hope that they too will have that same peace. We know that it won't happen for everyone and we are fine with that. That is what Christ has taught us in the Word all along.
So why the long dribble? When our country was founded, the idea of having the freedom to believe what you want without judgement or punishment is what the first amendment was written for. The majority of our founding fathers acknowledged there is a God. I'm sure however, they disagreed on how God should be worshipped, but they were all in agreement that we have that right to choose for ourselves.In other words, the first amendment was written to defend one's rights of religion.
If you truly believe that words on a wall or people bowing their heads in prayer is "pushing" you or "forcing" you to believe or whatever, then YOU have that problem. I'm offended by several images on public and government property all the time but I choose to ignore it because my life and my family's life is more important than images on a wall. Also I don't care.
I will however continue to pray for truth and understanding to come to you. God is the only way.
God Bless

Homer for God, Christian News Network 12 Comments [9/4/2015 3:25:48 AM]
Fundie Index: 2
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 112501

(In response to story "Sign Maker Offers ‘In God We Trust’ Patrol Car Decals to Police Officers Nationwide")

In my opinion, anybody who has a job requiring them to put their life on the line day in and day out can put whatever religious message they want on their vehicle if it helps them to do their job successfully and brings them comfort.
And only selfish and agenda driven liberal cry babies who don't give a damn about the safety and well being of these people would ever be so shameful to take issue with it.
Freedom is freedom. And that means we all have the right to BE offended by someone else's contrary beliefs, actions and speech to our own.
And then you suck it up and move along.

The Last Trump, Christian News Network 19 Comments [9/4/2015 3:24:28 AM]
Fundie Index: 2
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 112500

Go ACLJ! It's time to fight back against these intimidating tactics the FFRF is putting out there and the lies they use in doing so. When it comes to the fight they lose because they are wrong and they know it, but they have gotten some to bow down because of fear and the intimidation tactics they threaten with, I pray all states stop bowing down to the FFRF in these situations.

Josey, Christian News Network 8 Comments [9/4/2015 3:24:09 AM]
Fundie Index: 6
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 112498

My culture is American. I'm extremely happy to be living in the US. And if you are so gung-ho on your Asian side, then you should have moved back to Asia and married an Asian dude to have kids with. IMO, China is not the end all culture. Sure, we were ahead of the world for a while and invented gunpowder, but gosh who the f*ck cares about that stuff now? In addition, the mainland has horrible attitudes with many things, including how they control their news, Tibet and I am completely against them taking over Taiwan. I was heartsick when the Brits lost their lease on Hong Kong. And the Chinese place far too much importance on the men in their families. Hence the shortage of single women over there. I hate the Three Gorges Dam project and how the Chinese soldiers would shoot at the rare freshwater dolphins in the rivers. There is much of modern China that I dislike intensely and the whole country went away I wouldn't miss it at all. Ancient China is quaint, but it's all in the past.

Miu, City-Data 9 Comments [9/4/2015 3:09:11 AM]
Fundie Index: -9
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 112497

(on William Lane Craig's Kalam cosmological argument)

I can promise you that if Kalam had been refuted, it would not be in the citations of serious scholarly peer-reviewed journals. Could not get your link to load up, so how about debunking Kalam for me in this thread, with your own arguments?

"it's just rubbish" and "a laughingstock" and "genocide apologist"

See, these ad hominems are the kind of things we (former) Old Atheists would never have engaged in. We were actually too busy accomplishing things than to behave like 5 year olds in a school yard.

It sounds like Kalam is getting to you, if you cannot refute it for me on this thread. After all, you wrote "It isn't difficult at all to refute Kalam." Well, if it isn't difficult, go for it. :-) Besides, there is a Nobel Prize or something awaiting you when you DO refute it.

Say-so atheism really is the scourge of the planet.

WorldGoneCrazy, Live Action News 24 Comments [9/4/2015 3:08:24 AM]
Fundie Index: 6
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 112512

The FFRF needs to get a life. The monument was not built or maintained at taxpayer expense, and the builders payed a permit fee to keep it there. Yet the FFRF wastes government money in a lawsuit, trying to force them to spend government money to take something down that has been there for 60 years. Looks like just another example of atheists trying to force their belief system on everyone else.

Reformed Sinner, The Christian Post 4 Comments [9/4/2015 5:00:05 PM]
Fundie Index: 4
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 112286

"what is right or wrong" and "murdered" and "And do not see any problem with that"

OK, thank you, John N, for acknowledging the existence of God 3 times in that reply by asserting objective moral values and duties!

Premise 1: If there is no God, then objective moral values do not exist.
Premise 2: Objective moral values DO exist. (Your 3-fold claim above)
Conclusion 2: Therefore, God exists.

WorldGoneCrazy, Christian News Network 42 Comments [8/27/2015 3:59:27 AM]
Fundie Index: 15
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 112510

I know, people don't want to hear what I'm about to say... Those that finish, congratulations.

The single greatest lie, two records, the most believed, and the deadliest. And that is the Devil convincing the world, he doesn't exist.

Those who can accept his existence, know that this, and so many more acts like it, are his workings. The Devils time is short, Revelation 12:12 if you want to read it in full. The workings that he is about to loose on the Earth, will dwarf this in comparison.

Turn to Yeshua (Jesus) and you'll have nothing to worry about, the Devil will only be able to put speed bumps in your way. Ignore Yeshua, and you open yourself up to the same thing.

May God have mercy on Miss Carter, no one on Earth seems to want to. This does not mean I approve of what she has done, but I certainly will not condemn her.

Daniel Hudson, Christian News Network 2 Comments [9/4/2015 4:59:42 PM]
Fundie Index: 3
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 112469

[Rentboy.com, a gay escort site, was taken down by the US government.]

Why would Obama suddenly bring the hammer down on homosexual prostitution?

Maybe, in the wake of the Ashley Madison hack, he wants to get all the client information from this website in federal custody to protect the identities of his political and social friends who may be customers.

Or Obama believes, with homosexuality being the flavor of the year in the world of sexual abnormality, this is the moment to haul homosexual prostitutes into court and get some federal judge to rule that prostitution cannot be made illegal under the United States Constitution.


And his best chance to get the favorable ruling he wants, given the current cultural zeitgeist, is if the defendants in courts are homosexual prostitutes rather than heterosexual ones. What politically correct judge today would dare to rule against the sin of sodomy anywhere at anytime?

In other words, Obama is pursuing this action not because he wants to punish homosexual prostitutes but because he wants the Supreme Court to exonerate them.

Bryan Fischer, Barb Wire 57 Comments [9/2/2015 12:12:31 PM]
Fundie Index: 24
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 112509

Well now...this makes sense in a society where there are no longer any absolutes...where morals are subjective/relative depending on the situation and one's feelings, and where death is worshiped. Assisted suicide is legal in several states now...others are pushing for it. Abortion..legal in all 50 states, and now we know...PP has been selling aborted babies' parts for profit for years....even killing babies born alive to harvest their organs. We live in a culture of death and our children are being brainwashed to believe we are nothing more than apes, life has no real meaning outside of getting all the fun you can before it is over, and death is merely a ride into nothingness.

Very sad story. This is the fruit of paganism.

Angel Jabbins, Christian News Network 28 Comments [9/4/2015 3:38:55 AM]
Fundie Index: 18
Submitted By: Tim Grogan
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 60994

[This is not one of those fake church signs: it's the real thing, taken in Arkansas.]

Beryl Baptist Church, Pharyngula 181 Comments [3/29/2009 2:40:27 PM]
Fundie Index: 242
Submitted By: Tom S. Fox
WTF?! || meh

Word Salad Award

For when "Green ideas sleep furiously."

Quote# 75184

[Check the link for the full post. This is just the tip of the iceberg.]

Did you know homosexuals are actually a retarded people? They now hide behind atheism of science only to attack church as no such thing as no god in this universe ONLY stubborn dumb animals known as atheist homosexuals desiring to seek the shit of another mans ass- truly a retarded people in need of shock therapy. Congressional legislation soon to label all homo people as RETARDS so mankind understand the root cause of atheism and move on

AGAIN=atheists are nothing more than disgruntled homosexuals- if by small chance you are a heterosexual atheist this is simply because you were brainwashed by the homosexuals as all humans are a simple gullible monkey creature without knowledge of our infinite souls and guidance by god….Homosexuals are nothing more than abused children which made by god TO MIRROR the disgust in so called normal civilized behavior of sex lusting monkey people of the earth- everyone repent

The fascinating aspect of the atheists homosexual is theirscientific rational to glorify and colorfy the world of shit. Atheism is world of shit in which your head is up your ass. Homosexuality akin to pagan sex monkey people. both realms are retarded as many retarded people Yet the atheists homosexual may operate with humanity such as congress hair salons and such- families love retards during good times as Pets, bad times kill everything with retard merely in the way and focus of scapegoat policy by simple monkey people of weak faith behavior caused by very retarded shit lined rainbow coalition of shit-the atheists and homosexuals- one in the same made by god to mirror the disgusting pagan weak of faith community at large.repent

Energycrisis13, TOS100.COM 165 Comments [8/14/2010 4:02:44 AM]
Fundie Index: 270
Submitted By: TB Tabby
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 112508

Jackson created the Democratic party and surely that theory was prominent in his thinking, (take from the haves (Native Americans) and give to the have-nots). Also his low view of the value of human life (think abortion). We see where the Sermon on the Mount was not at all in his thinking. Very few calling themselves Christian follow the principles set forth in the Sermon on the Mount, indeed.

Dave_L, Christian News Network 16 Comments [9/4/2015 3:35:40 AM]
Fundie Index: 13
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 108289

The Vagina...

...is neither unique nor special; there are around 4 BILLION of them on the planet. It does not bestow upon the creature who posesses one the right to privelage or special attention.
Having a vagina does not entitle you to behave like a spoiled brat.
It is not a ticket to a free ride. Vaginas are holes for penises. Nothing more, nothing less.
Like a child is 'special' to its parents, a vagina is only 'special' to its owner (or the man who temporarily owns it) and you cannot expect preferential treatment just because you happen to have one.
It is an organ designed to be penetrated by a penis; that's what it's for.
Getting all iffy and uptight because men want to do just that is ridiculous.
The vagina bleeds, and no matter how you dance around the subject it's not ok to talk about it in public.
If men 'leaked' sperm for 5 days a month and had to insert little absorbent tampons it would be labelled 'a disgusting man thing'.
The vagina has been replicated and can now be purchased without the accompanying meatbag. What this means is that your special thing is now not so special.
Just because you have a meaty hole with lips, fluff and a micro penis does not mean you have the right to be a crazy bitch.
Thank you.

leisuresuitlarry, Godlike Productions 58 Comments [5/3/2015 3:50:39 AM]
Fundie Index: 22
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 112181

When I say that feminists are barbarians, I mean that in the strongest possible sense: they are literally destroying our society, brick by brick. Let's take a look at the highlight reel.

-Genital Mutilation (euphemized as "transsexuality")
-No-fault Divorce
-The de-stigmatization of promiscuity
-The wholesale destruction of the American Family
-Same sex mirage (no, that's not a typo)

I could go on and on. In fact, nearly every crisis in modern western civilization traces its roots in a straight line back to Feminism. It takes concerted effort to produce a modern crisis that has not been caused by Feminism. Feminism is the most destructive idea in the history of the world, even surpassing Communism (a truly amazing feat, given that Communism murdered 200 million people).

Tim Dukeman, Deeper than Sound-Bites 19 Comments [8/24/2015 3:26:37 AM]
Fundie Index: 18
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 112507

Not a theocracy, just a Ten Commandments commentary on ethics to properly balance interpretation of Law. Today they write new Laws using wide of the mark interpretations of the Law.

Dave_L, Christian News Network 20 Comments [9/4/2015 3:35:25 AM]
Fundie Index: 9
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 65411

I seem to recall the city of Sodom had a long debate about homosexuality. Six people voted against embracing it— Lot, his wife, two daughters and two holy men visiting them. The rest of the town voted for it. God did not respect the decision of the overwhelming majority, did he?

Vigilanteman, Free Republic 85 Comments [9/2/2009 10:28:08 AM]
Fundie Index: 55
Submitted By: DevilsChaplain
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 97590

Modernity is doing a pretty good job of repealing itself, through debt and multiculturalism. Not being able to vote will be the least of the hens’ worries in a few years…

If liberals weren’t all pedophiles, they wouldn’t be trying to disarm parents…

I don’t know what Walsh thinks, but I certainly believe that women shouldn’t be able to vote. They have observably made their lives worse, and thrown away their actual rights (and everyone else’s), in favor of their “right” (actually just a privilege) to vote.

NR, The National Review 20 Comments [11/12/2013 3:39:44 AM]
Fundie Index: 36
WTF?! || meh

Quote# 112442

it's okay to molest your siblings but gawd forbid you have an extramarital affair with a consenting adult

I saw a montage of liberal reaction to this family. No reasonable person could observe those reactions and call it anything but hate - written all over their faces, wrapped around every word, and seeping out of every pore. Only liberals can miss the irony of being the epitome of hateful while accusing others of being hateful.

Are you saying Josh is the monster, or all this publicity is the monster? I agree, if you mean the latter. A friend of mine literally lived and worked with Josh Duggar for a year when Josh was in his early 20's. He told me that Josh is one of the finest people he has ever been around. More than anything, that's what makes me think Josh was failed by his parents, his father in particular, in preparing him to deal with sexual issues, but despite some missteps by his parents, he was able to correct the problem by age 15, and I have a big problem defining the man now by what that boy did. I suspect none of us want to be judged that way.

The allegation of a cover up ("family buried it") seems to have no basis. A state trooper friend was consulted, their pastor and a group of close friends knew, they sought out a mentor, professional counsellors were used, and the parents took their son to the local state police post to report the behavior. If that's a cover up, it's a very poor one. The other sense you may mean "buried it" could be that the family tried to forget about it. That could be true, and it could be appropriate. Forgiveness and restoration could look like burying it, or be characterized as that, but it could also mean that the issue was dealt with successfully, and the matter put and left in the past. Going by the victims' statements, they love their brother, do not carrying resentment of him, and deny any unresolved emotional issues.

[Josh Duggar has held himself out there to be an moral arbiter in judgment of others. I can't even begin to feel the slightest bit of sympathy that he, personally, has to go through this.]

I have real trouble understanding how a child's sin negates his ability to hold and promote moral views as a man. I sense there is a standard being applied here that no one would apply to themselves. It would be like this if I were a public figure: Q: How do you feel about the morality of capital punishment? A: I can't hold a public view on that because I groped a girl in the 8th grade. Huh? Now, if as a 50 year old man I am molesting 8th grade girls, then I would have to agree that I have no standing to advocate any moral position. There is a logical gap/leap some anti-Duggars are taking right on this point.
This gets to one of the roots of the controversy and division this story has created.

It's basically the hypocrisy argument: "If you have ever had a moral failure, you are disqualified from holding any public moral view, and advocating for that view."

Which, of course, is total nonsense. The argument imposes on anyone who holds a public moral view a claim of moral superiority, if not moral perfection. The Duggars would, in fact, claim the opposite. A fundamental element of their faith would be that they are morally broken and imperfect people, and that the only way to be whole is through faith, but that while they have a living body, they are susceptible to wrong-doing. Because of this reality, they need moral boundaries to keep from harming themselves and others. Josh violated those moral boundaries, and he hurt himself and others. This is evidence of his imperfection, and it also demonstrates the need for those boundaries. It does not negate the need or diminish the quality of the moral standard itself, but rather shows why the standard is needed. If I strive to live by that standard, and so do my neighbors, and the people I work with, and all the other community members I come into contact with, we individually and collectively create a very good place for human beings to live with one another, in spite of the occasions where those standards are violated. So, you would want to advocate the setting of those standards for the benefit of yourself and everyone around you. You can't demand those standards are codified into law, although many are (don't murder, steal, lie), but every community has an ethos that defines it - what it values and discourages - and someone with views like the Duggars want that view to have a seat at the public table - not that they are perfect, because they are imperfect like everyone else - but because they feel the moral standard they hold is good for them and everyone around them. They would recogize that others would have other standards, and that a societal consensus may not want to adopt their standard. That's how democracy and freedom works.

But when we require moral perfection for one to hold moral public views, we are simply shaming with the label of hypocrisy in order to prevent a moral standard from being heard. That's not real democratic or freedom-honoring. The hypocisy argument is intended to discourage anyone from holding a public moral veiw they disagree with, since there are no morally perfect people. It's simplistic and inane, but there are a ton of people who buy it and repeat it.

By definition, hypocrisy can only exist where people are trying to live by a higher moral standard than what basic human nature provides. If you believe promiscuity is good for you, and you try to have sex with every woman in the bar, then you are not a hypocrite. But if you are the Sunday School teacher who has promoted sobriety and sexual purity, and you do the same, then you are a hypocrite. So, you see what your standard is determines whether hypocrisy exists. But again, the SS teacher's hypocrisy is only evidence of his imperfection, but does not prove that the standard is faulty. The choice is one in which we opt for a society with the lowest moral standards and no hypocrisy or one with high moral standards with hypocrisy. I'll take the latter, but I understand many prefer the former.

Idealogies clash - political and religious ones in particular. I have contempt for leftist and secular ideologies because I have seen that they are dangerous and destructive (as are some on the other side), and contempt for those from that bent who promote those beliefs through intolerance, hatred, name-calling, personal attack, and throwing fits like spoiled children - essentially what we are seeing in how they are treating this family. On the other hand, I cherish every one of my liberal friends who can sit down over a cup of coffee, make an intelligent argument, and teach me something. By definition, you can only learn something from someone who knows something you don't, or has a perspective you don't know about. Liberals have taught me a ton. Critics will point out to you the weaknesses in your thinking and confirm your strengths. In some cases, I have changed my thinking in subtle or drastic ways, or found confirmation in what I held. It's a great process, but I suspect very few people ever do it.

As for Josh's rehabilitation, you are aware that he received professional counselling, or not? I will assume that you do not claim the same kind of faith as the Duggars, so how can you judge what their faith principles and prayer can and cannot do? What we know now is that there has not been any reported repeat offences for over a decade. The people who know him best say he was/is a changed person. So, who do we believe? Who would have the proximity to make a reasonable judgment on that? I looked it up. The recitivism rate for those in Josh's category is much lower than what I assumed - around 10-15%. So, kids have issues, they get help, and the vast majority do really well going forward. I think we should be very careful about wanting to tattoo the label of "sexual offender" or "child molester" on a man who did what Josh did as a child.

Your noting all the mandatory reporters out there is a good point. I am a mandatory reporter. Because of my job, and my volunteer work with the juvenile court, I deal with social workers, psychologist, psychiatrists, probation officers, and various law enforcement every week. Some of the most outstanding people I know fill those roles, and I love using them to help people and families. The reality is that there are also some who are complete nuts - who I wouldn't want within 10 miles of any child. The minute you report, as a parent, you have no control over the situation. People who do not know you, and you don't know, begin to make decisions about what will happen to your children - what kind of punishment and treatment they will get, and whether they can remain in the home and under what circumstances. Knowing what I know, I would have never gone to the police or any mandatory reporter in this particular Duggar scenario (more violent or drastic offences, I would). I would have first tried to deal with it through parental action, mentoring, and probably a trusted expert who would help without reporting for a limited term (delay the reporting). If that worked, then the reporting could happen later. If it didn't, then you have to let the state have their shot. But it's so easy to tell other people to turn their children over to the state. It's a completely different story when it's your child. Given what I've seen, you would be a fool to do that in a situation like the Duggars found themselves in. Yes, I know what the law is, and there are good reasons for it, but as a dad I have to do what is best for my children, and so, yes, I would definitely skirt it, delay it, or whatever I had to do. The mandatory reporting system itself discourages reporting by parents because of what can happen after - and that creates tragedies when the problem is not solved and it never reaches the authorities.

Well, the Ashley Madison leak reveals that Mr. Josh was cheating on his wife. Now, before anyone goes off in a wrong direction, I do consider child molestation worse than infidelity, but I have no respect for a man who cannot keep his word to his wife and be faithful. Josh may have conquered his sexual curiosity about his sisters, but he did not conquer his desires for sex outside of the boundaries. You won't hear me defending him or his parents.

OSUK, Buckeye Planet 26 Comments [9/1/2015 4:51:06 AM]
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WTF?! || meh
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